From:  "L-Soft list server at Indiana University (1.8d)" <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
To:    "ARTF@MemoryAlpha.nil"
File:  "LOISCLA-GENERAL-L
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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 02:09:41 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Lansbury 1 <Lansbury1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: the soulmate chronicles: sea hawk
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In a message dated 7/14/98 10:18:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
MGALVEZ@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU writes:

<<
 Can I get the soulmate chronicles in the LnC gateway fan archive?  I would
love to read this but I don't have the time & space to do it now.

         Thanks,  Mercedes
  >>

It is in the process of being edited now for the Archive.   Look for it
soon.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:20:08 +1000
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Leanne Genn <lgenn@POWERUP.COM.AU>
Subject:      Ta + OT: Miles at the DP (was Re: "justification" &tc)
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Thank you all, I hardly knew what I meant to ask when I posted the question,
but I got "answer" beyond my expectation <g>. I love the ebb and flow of the
discussions here. Always educational, and always highly entertaining!

And Leanne Shawler wrote:

>No, no!!! I'm not ready to write a Vorkosigan/L&C crossover ... please!! I
>mean, *who* would babble more? Lois or Miles????

Not ready? Does that mean you may be, at some time in the future? (anyone...
anyone? please?)

I think that Miles would drive Lois seriously nuts... he can match her in
freneticism on any day, and I think he'd have the answers before she did.
Not to mention, she belongs to that physical type (tall, cool brunettes)
that he's usually helplessly attacted to. <g> Hmm, maybe not so much anymore
(with that breathtaking scene at the end of Komarr).

>PS. Hey and Miles has a secret identity too ...

Yeah, and I think that Clark would understand "Vor" very well indeed.

Leanne.
(struggling to tamp down a mind-image of HG Wells materialising during
ImpWed and getting fast-penta'd within an inch of his life, LOL)

==========================
Leanne Genn
[lgenn@powerup.com.au]
One Big Joke: <http://www.powerup.com.au/~lgenn/>

For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbours, and laugh at them
in our turn? -- Jane Austen, "Pride and Prejudice"
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:27:23 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         salymc <salymc@GATEWAY.NET>
Subject:      My %$#!& New Mail Program
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I was just informed that my mail program -- which is quickly giving me more
gray hairs than I have already -- is making my messages appear as
gobbley-gook in digest, as well as in the archive.  (It seems html was
turned on in my program rather than plain text.)  If anyone has received an
incomprehensible message of mine -- I mean, beyond content<g> -- *and* you
*really* want to read it, let me know and I'll send it again to you
individually.  I suppose there's no need to resend the message to the entire
list.  The archived message will just have to be left as a mess.

Sandy -- extremely pissed, but trying to have a nice day nonetheless.
salymc@gateway.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:31:08 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Leanne Shawler <volterra@SD.ZNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: My Personal Take on Fanfic (Was Justification)
In-Reply-To:  <007801bdafa4$6f10a0e0$2d4a48a6@oemcomputer>
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Sandra writes:

>  I would never have written a word without the Lois and  Clark list --
>without the support system as well as a desire to show my stuff  amongst a
>group of people who I grew to care about.  I've watched other TV  shows
>before which captured my attention as much as L&C has, but I never did  a
>thing about it.  The difference for me was the list, the interaction, the
>need to test my abilities against others.  It was more about me and the
>list, than about the show.   It was more about watching something in
>tandem with others than just simply watching something I liked.  After
>all,  I can honestly say that L&C isn't the best thing I've seen on TV,
>but its  the only show I watched and discussed and debated with hundreds
>of others every  week.  If I had done the same with House of Elliott or
>Poldark, or the  Buccaneers, or whatever, perhaps I would have written
>fanfic about them as  well.   I think doing something just for oneself is
>fine, but, without  the ability to share it with people who are open to
>accepting it -- or you --  it's rather empty. <

Methinks Sandra's on to something here.

I have to admit the first fanfic I wrote had an audience (actually, I never
realy thought about writing Les Mis fic, until I signed up for "The
Barricade" newsletter.)

The rest of the time it was like ... you'd make up a story in your head,
dream about it in those hours before sleeping and never really do anything
about it. I once wrote a story outline that was loosely linked to "Family
Ties" but I never wrote it out and frankly, it's incomprehensible now (and
it's even typed!)

Now that I've discovered there's a Big Valley fandom out there, I'm
actually dusting off an old story (of which I remembered but one scene) and
recreating an outline for it, which I *may* write out and it'll be a bloody
epic when I do ... and *even* joining in on a round robin. (Leanne passes
around the smelling salts)

Looking at the stuff I've written: there's my Celtic/Arthurian novel
(currently stalled, I want to do an excellent job at that one), my Regency
Romance (in rewrite, and inspired by a dreadful B. Cartland movie -- I
guess I have to thank BC for getting me into the whole Regency thing ...
I've devoured Heyer etc ever since!), my incomplete Three Musketeers fic
(pure "Mary Sue" and only one or two people have seen it, hey I may finish
it), and a rewrite (completed) of "Hamlet" from Ophelia's point of view
(written after seeing the Branagh film, which was brilliant but revitalised
my high school complaints of Shakey doing poorly by the women).

Hmm, maybe I wrote more fanfic (in a way) than I thought!

So --  community has a lot to do with getting your fanfic stories
"published." Or even writing a story to share with a single like-minded
friend. But it seems that sometimes I write anyway.

Gotta go to work!!!

Leanne

Leanne Shawler aka Volterra on IRC (volterra@sd.znet.com)
Web Design: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/design/webdesign.html
Home Page: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/leanne.html
Midnight Dreaming: The Original Anthony Warlow Home Page:
http://www.zweb.com/volterra/anthony.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:38:10 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Ta + OT: Miles at the DP (was Re: "justification" &tc)
Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com
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>> (struggling to tamp down a mind-image of HG Wells materialising during=

ImpWed and getting fast-penta'd within an inch of his life, LOL) <<

ROFL, Leanne, don't do that to me... <g>

["But what about Utopia?" the strange little man wailed.

What the heck? Miles wondered, slanting an inquiring glance towards
Galeni, who had once majored in history.  =

His eyebrows had risen in surprise.  "A short-lived period in Earth
history," the head of Komarran affairs explained rapidly.  "Universal
peace, but with very little technical advance.  The discovery of the firs=
t
wormholes and the opening of colonization woke them out of their "univers=
al
dream"."

Miles turned back to Wells and shrugged.  "Nothing lasts forever."]

Oh, the crossover possibilities are overwhelming... imagine Lois
getting cooking lessons from Ma Kosti <g>  And I do think that Lois could=

have a very interesting discussion with Cordelia & Ekaterin about the
sacrifices that women should or shouldn't make in a marriage...

But you're right, Miles would drive Lois up a wall... <eg>

I wonder if Superman's superpowers would last, under a Barrayaran sun?

To keep this at least marginally on topic -- did you guys know that
Lois McMaster Bujold started her writing career doing fanfic?  "Shards of=

Honor," her first book, was started as a Star Trek fanfic.  (The Betans
were Starfleet, of course, and the "army-mad Barrayarans" were meant to
be Klingons, I believe) But then she decided to take the story farther an=
d
create a new universe around her characters, and now she's won several Hu=
go
awards... (and I definitely like Aral better as a human than a Klingon
<g>).

PJ
who thinks everyone should read Bujold... <g>

p.s., Leanne G, are you on the Bujold mailing list?

!^NavFont02F05A0000FMGJHG75MG77HLA2A99A

  E-mail from: Pam Jernigan, 15-Jul-1998
  jernigan@compuserve.com / ChiefPam on the IRC
~~~~~
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jernigan/folc.html
Find all the IRC roundrobin fanfic / Featuring recommended fanfics
~~~~~
"Women and cats will do as they please and men and dogs =

should relax and get used to the idea." -- Robert A. Heinlein
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:24:20 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         "B.B. Medos" <bbmedos@GEOCITIES.COM>
Subject:      Re: "justification" and the plot's the thing
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Sheila wrote: <<Most fans, even fans of plot-driven series like "X-Files,"
write character-driven fanfic--usually with more introspection than action.
 Jenkins had some interesting comments on why this is true, but I'd rather
hear from the rest of you:  why do you write (or read) the *kind* of fanfic
that you do?>>

I have no idea. Seriously, somebody is going to have to tell me what *kind*
of fanfic I write in the context of what is being asked here before I could
even begin to address this one.

Although I do know the answer to the side question to this one about 'to
fix or not to fix' damage done to modern myths. I most definitely write
fanfic to 'fix' what I perceive as things the series leaves out, can't
address or to add things that I'd simply like to see myself. I'm not sure I
can even understand the point of writing fanfic that attempts to stay
strictly within the continuity of the series as presented. Really. This is
just MHO, but why do that? What is the fun in explaining away something
that a) I liked as is or b) I didn't like as is at all?

Anyway I look at it, whenever a 'what if' scenario presents itself to me,
it's to either expand the direction the series took but did not go far
enough or it's to explore an area the series would NEVER touch, not in a
million years. Neither one of those are criticisms of the series, either,
because I respect the limitations of being a one-hour family-oriented
product. In working with what they had to work with, the writers and
producers took L&C farther than I ever thought they would in the first
place. That doesn't mean, however, that I'm not tempted to explore those
other possibilities. Oh, those roads not taken. <vbeg>

OTOH, there is a notable exception to the above. I do see the justification
for the kinds of stories that attempt to expand individual events from
episodes, either actual or referred to, that we aren't necessarily privy to
on screen. That might be fun but the thing is that if I ever attempted to
do one of those, the next thing I knew continuity would go flying right out
the window. It's not exploring the unsaid that I can't handle, it's
sticking to continuity that gives me fits. I just don't think I could start
at point A and end up where the series had point B without taking a major
detour that ends me up in the middle of a completely different storyline
with no way to get back. I'm tempted by too many possibilities and the
sheer frustration alone of not being able to meander away from what the
series did would drive me nuts. Uh-huh, no way. I know my own limits also.

I don't know, did I just answer the original question or not? If it was in
reference to specific stories, then somebody is going to have to ask a
specific question, because every single one of mine is so completely
different I'm not sure how to answer regarding the kinds they are.
Although, maybe that is a description of a kind of story, because I also
tend to like to read the more unusual fanfics. The less like what happened
on the series or in an actual episode the better, which I suppose is why I
have yet to read a single fifth season episode. The characters HAVE to be
true to the series, but not the possibilities explored. Hmmm, maybe there
is an answer buried in there somewhere. <g>

Beverly :-)
P.S. I also have a difficult time thinking of X-Files as plot driven,
because if Fox Mulder wasn't who he was he wouldn't be investigating what
he does in the first place. That series is about as character driven as any
I've EVER seen.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:13:28 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: "justification" and the plot's the thing
Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com
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Okay, I'll jump in here... [Warning: self-indulgent ramble ahead!]

I almost never disagree with Zoomway <g> but on this one, I have to.  I
have never been that interested in sticking with continuity in my fanfic.=
 =

I admire writers who can slide their stories in between eps and have
everything all "fit" but that's simply not a goal of mine.

I write stories that are challenges to myself in one way or another.  I
also liked to write "ahead of the curve", i.e., one step ahead of everyon=
e
else in trends (I just don't like to follow trends).  I wrote a few short=

revelation stories along with everyone else, around the end of the second=

season, but then I started wondering... I was so insistent that the show
could continue once Lois knew "the secret", but how could I demand that
others come up with good stories if I couldn't?  So I started writing "Lo=
is
knows, now what?" stuff. [It's a Surprise]  =

---L&C are gonna want to get married, that ain't gonna be easy
or uncomplicated, so how can we make that a good thing? [Going to the
Chapel]  =

---Once we saw WHALTTA, yay, she knows, but amnesia is certainly in
her future, so how can I make *that* a good thing? [Second Chances]

---I once swore to myself that I'd never write a story where Lois
was pregnant, just because it was such a popular theme, but then I got
hauled into doing Season 5... <g>

I also like putting in twists, and surprising the reader somewhere along
the way... <g> and humor is very important to me... and I think I've lost=

sight of the original question...

I don't usually have fully developed A-plots, just the barest hint of
a premise that I can get away with.  I admire writers who can pull of a
good A-plot, and I'm not as scared of doing them myself as I used to be,
but its not something that really interests me.  I write stories to explo=
re
the characters, to explore a mood [Quiet Night; What Dreams May Come], an=
d
yes, sometimes, to "fix" what I disliked about the original source [Forge=
t
Me Not, Redux].

I do think you can change circumstances in order to shift the
character's reactions, and still maintain the spirit of the characters. =

Granted, some writers take it too far and end up with their own versions,=

but I don't even mind those too much.  To a certain degree, it's all a
matter of interpretation, and as we've seen, interpretation can vary
widely.

PJ
(and all my stories are available on my website <g> in case I've
piqued anyone's curiousity)

!^NavFont02F07C40007MGHHNC6F7D5

  E-mail from: Pam Jernigan, 15-Jul-1998
  jernigan@compuserve.com / ChiefPam on the IRC
~~~~~
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jernigan/folc.html
Find all the IRC roundrobin fanfic / Featuring recommended fanfics
~~~~~
"Women and cats will do as they please and men and dogs =

should relax and get used to the idea." -- Robert A. Heinlein
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:52:29 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Tips for fanfic writers (fwd)
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In a message dated 98-07-14 22:36:26 EDT, you write:

<< . Frequently misused homonyms:
 >     a) they're/their/there >>

Oh, thank you Leanne--this is the stuff of editor's nightmares!! :)
--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:58:17 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      plot-driven versus character-driven shows (was Re:
              "justification" and
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In a message dated 98-07-15 12:39:57 EDT, bbmedos@GEOCITIES.COM writes:

<< P.S. I also have a difficult time thinking of X-Files as plot driven,
 because if Fox Mulder wasn't who he was he wouldn't be investigating what
 he does in the first place. That series is about as character driven as any
 I've EVER seen.
  >>

Woo hoo, my TV job finally comes in handy on fanfic<g>  The X-Files is a
plot-
driven show (also called a quest-driven show)  Other plot (quest)-driven
shows
would be Sliders, Quantum Leap, The Prisoner or The Fugitive. Shows like
Lois
and Clark, Party of 5, Dawson's Creek, Northern Exposure  or Ally McBeal,
are
character-driven shows.   Seeing the lists of both types of shows, it's easy
to see how they differ even fundamentally.

In plot-driven shows, the overriding quest (thematic goal) is what drives
the
hero. Whether it is to find the "truth" that's out there, the one-armed man
and prove his innocence,  set right what once went wrong and make the leap
home, find number one and escape the Village, make the 'slide' back home,
etc.
working toward and trying to achieve that quest/goal is what plot-driven
shows
are all about.  They are also called 'negative premise' shows because the
hero
really can't get what he's striving for, or the show's premise is ended.
That's why the one-armed man is found and confesses in the last episode of
The
Fugitive.

In character-driven shows, it's about the evolution of the characters or
their
relationships.  They can be coming-of-age shows like The Wonder Years or
James
at 15.  Family evolution like The Waltons or Family (hee hee ;)  The
evolution
of a relationship like Lois and Clark or the devolution of one, like
Moonlighting (snicker ;) or the evolution of a town full of people like
Northern Exposure.  However, unlike plot-driven shows, when a goal exists,
it's on a personal level.  Clark wants a job, someone to love, a home a
family, etc. or John-boy wants to become a writer. Since this is not what
all
the characters in these respective series are after (whether good guys or
bad
guys) it remains a struggle on a personal level.

In plot-driven shows, the quest is what all are involved in, again, whether
the good guys or the bad guys, they're all driven by this quest.  The plot
(quest) is what drives them all. Everything of significance that happens to
the hero(es) is because of this overriding quest.  Just thinking of Scully
alone this becomes clear.  She was 'abducted', got cancer, cured of cancer,
'had' a child, the child died, Scully had her ova harvested, her sister was
murdered (and you thought Lois had problems ;) etc.  All of these
events/tragedies are directly connected to the quest plot.  Other than
joining
the FBI, none of these events were a matter of choice for Scully. Geez, who
would choose them anyway<g>  In a character-driven show, a character can get
cancer too, as happened in Party of 5, but no conspiracy or overriding
'quest'
was responsible.

I think the reason that some balk at the term 'plot-driven' is because they
might think in terms of Mission Impossible and assume that a plot-driven
show
can't or doesn't  have compelling or interesting characters, but that's not
the case.  They can and do have interesting characters, and the quest that
sets the theme of the show is often the goal or obsession of the main
character(s).  However, the plot (quest) will always drive and, to an
extent,
control the characters.  In a character-driven show, the characters make
their
own choices regardless of plot for a given episode, and therein lies where
their evolution (or deterioration) as characters takes place.  Clark chose
to
become Superman and Clark chose to go to New Krypton  Lois chose to accept
Clark's request for a date and Lois chose to share her life with Clark.

Both plot-driven and character-driven shows can have many things in common,
but which of the two is predominant in tone, is one of the ways they're
separated. This can also be seen in how rapidly characters can evolve.  In
plot-driven shows evolution of characters is much slower (sometimes it never
seems to happen at all) Even someone totally unfamiliar with Lois and Clark,
however, could be shown several episodes from first season, and then several
>from fourth season and easily notice that some *big* relationship changes
took
place<g>  Conversely someone unfamiliar with X-Files could be shown several
first and fourth season episodes and notice only cursory changes in Scully
and
Mulder's relationship at best.  A rabid fan might disagree, but remember,
I'm
talking non-rabid one-shot viewer here<g>

Characters can change more slowly (or not at all) on plot-driven shows
because
the quest is the overriding element, and if the characters change too much
or
too rapidly, their obsession or dedication to the quest might suffer or
become
sidetracked by other issues and the audience might lose interest.  If a
character-driven show takes too long with the evolution of the characters or
a
relationship, the audience can lose interest through boredom or frustration
(audience dropout first half of L&C's 2nd season) or if the characters (and
thus the audience) are cheated out of a promised advancement (the notorious
non-wedding arc) the damage might be too severe to repair in a manner that
will woo back the disenchanted.

To make a long explanation short, The X-Files is a plot-driven show<g>

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:04:32 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: My Personal Take on Fanfic (Was Justification)
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In a message dated 98-07-15 10:30:43 EDT, volterra@SD.ZNET.COM writes:

<< Looking at the stuff I've written: there's my Celtic/Arthurian novel
 (currently stalled, I want to do an excellent job at that one), my Regency
 Romance ... >>

Yikes, after seeing Leanne's list, I wondered how many of you fanfic writers
eventually end up with something published that you actually, maybe, got
paid
for... (or maybe some of you will someday and we can all say we knew you
when
;)   )

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:58:41 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Mercedes Galvez-Arango <MGALVEZ@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Ta + OT: Miles at the DP (was Re: "justification" &tc)
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

who is miles vorkosigan?  what his significance?

Mercedes
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:08:34 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Mercedes Galvez-Arango <MGALVEZ@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: "justification" and the plot's the thing
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

thats why the networks hire many writers.  They each keep each other on
their toes and steer them in the right direction.  Maybe to get from A to B
you could use a co-writer.     --Mercedes
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:56:29 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: "justification" and the plot's the thing
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 98-07-15 15:14:34 EDT, you write:

<< I almost never disagree with Zoomway <g> but on this one, I have to >>

You can always disagree with me, but you're still required to patronize my
fruit stand just outside the city limits near the Interstate ;)

>>>I
have never been that interested in sticking with continuity in my fanfic.
I admire writers who can slide their stories in between eps and have
everything all "fit" but that's simply not a goal of mine.<<<

Oddly enough, my 'goal' has little to do with continuity when it comes to
writing. My goal is to write something I hope is entertaining, thought-
provoking or just plain funny ;)  The continuity issue is simply my personal
approach to obtaining the above goal.

>>I write stories that are challenges to myself in one way or another.<<<<

Now this I really don't do.  That is I'm not interested in creating a
personal
challenge for myself.  There are stories that become a challenge by their
nature or subject matter, but for me, writing is a matter of having
something
to say, or a story to tell in a way that I like to tell one.  For example, I
want to write an nfic, not for the challenge of it, but because there's an
issue I wanted to address between Lois and Clark. However it's a *big*
challenge to me because I don't write nfic.  Likely it will end up a none
nfic
nfic<g>  That is the subject matter will remain adult, but there will be no
graphic depictions (sorry about that ;)

>>>I don't usually have fully developed A-plots, just the barest hint of
a premise that I can get away with.  I admire writers who can pull of a
good A-plot, and I'm not as scared of doing them myself as I used to be,
but its not something that really interests me.<<<<

This too I think deals more on approach.  That is, something that works for
each writer as an individual.  Some write an outline first and yet I find it
impossible to create an outline because I never know how my story is going
to
end until I get to the end.  What an A plot does for me is keep a running
sub-
structure to the story. It also, like on the series, places the characters
in
a situation or set of circumstances that they normally wouldn't face
otherwise
and so challenges them on levels that may be atypical.  Nor do I normally do
"villain" plots, and they would be considered more in keeping with the
series,
but I keep them as a shadow most often; a looming threat, but not an
intrusive
one.  Lex was nothing more than a catalyst to the A plot of Counter Clark-
wise, then he had no further function in that story line. Tempus was the
villain in Always Something... , but had an extremely brief appearance in
the
story. I view villains as a cue ball. They set everything in motion, often
violently and abruptly, but after that, let the balls role, and let the
characters call the pocket.

>>>I do think you can change circumstances in order to shift the
character's reactions, and still maintain the spirit of the characters. <<<

I agree this is true, if you mean for example Superman said "I love you too,
Lois" at the end of Barbarians at the Planet, Lois's reaction would have
been
a whole lot different from what we saw<g>  However, this scenario is only
satisfying for me if I can make it work within the parameters of what we
actually saw.  For me personally it's like a little victory and also it's
like
it really happened, or could have really happened, and not become a  "darn,
I
wish it happened that way, too bad it didn't" moment.  I know that last part
sounds confusing, but there's so many ways that writers for Lois and Clark
can
play around with continuity and still have it *be* continuity that I only
get
satisfaction when I can make it work on that level.

That is, when we did a round robin that totally rewrote the continuity of
the
pilot episode in A World Without Superman, we did so because the A plot was
fueled by Mxyzptlk sending Lois back to that era with full knowledge of her
and Clark's history together, and that Lois has to convince Clark that he's
super powered and flies around in tights<g>  If she accomplishes that goal,
then 'reality' is restored and Mxy goes back to the 5th dimension. Nothing
we
did to the pilot was permanent, but playing with "what ifs" in the pilot was
fun.  Yet due to the extraordinary powers of Mxyzptlk, it was all kept
within
continuity.

All of this regards personal taste as writers and readers. If Lois and Clark
are kept true to their characterization, I can read them and enjoy them in
almost any set of circumstances.  As a writer though, I have more fun using
the continuity, or creatively playing with the continuity without utterly
undoing or rewriting the continuity.  That's why I enjoy your stories and
those of others regardless of where or how they take place.  As long as
they're true to the characters, I'm a happy camper. So I read fanfic and
write
fanfic and find my enjoyment of fanfic on two separate levels<g>

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:40:01 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Georgia E. Walden" <gwalde14@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: "justification" and the plot's the thing
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19980715112420.0069a060@mail.geocities.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:24 AM 7/15/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Although I do know the answer to the side question to this one about 'to
>fix or not to fix' damage done to modern myths. I most definitely write
>fanfic to 'fix' what I perceive as things the series leaves out, can't
>address or to add things that I'd simply like to see myself. I'm not sure I
>can even understand the point of writing fanfic that attempts to stay
>strictly within the continuity of the series as presented. Really. This is
>just MHO, but why do that? What is the fun in explaining away something
>that a) I liked as is or b) I didn't like as is at all?

"How come when you repeat what I say it sounds so dumb?" ;)

Seriously, this is such an incredibly subjective thing, it sometimes seems
that we're speaking a foreign language to each other.  There isn't any way
I can explain why reading stories that stay within continuity please me
more than others (not to the exclusion of others, but definitely more)
because it does seem to be dependent on the mind-set we bring to the
reading experience.  All I know is that I came to this feeling through
trial and error.

When I first got online three years ago and discovered all the facets of
L&C fandom, I devoured a lot of fanfic.  It was possible then to actually
read it all - now, I don't think so. ;)  I hit every website I could
access, I got on the list for new stuff - I ftp-ed and downloaded until my
eyes bubbled. ;)  And over time, I realized that the stories that gave me
what I wanted *most*  weren't the what-ifs or the wildly variant.  A lot of
them were great stories and I enjoyed reading them, but when I did hit on
one that was good and also in continuity, I just had this extra feeling of
satisfaction from it that the others didn't provide.

Like a lot of people, some of the first ones I read were "Counter
Clark-Wise" and Chris Mulder's two long stories (which at the time were in
continuity since they were begun before the show did anything with the
relationship).  There was Carla Humbert's "Quick Change" which is a perfect
example of what fun you can have between the spaces. :)  I also realized
that this kind wasn't going to be easy to find.  As the show kept adding
more and more story to be accounted for, the fanfic became increasingly
divergent.  I'd be curious to know if this is the case in other fanfics
that are based on an ongoing series.

And just to be really perverse <g> the stories written for the "fifth
season" that I've read seem like what-ifs to me, despite their intent of
being within continuity as far as possible.  Go figure. ;)

Georgia

gwalde14@mindspring.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:40:36 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kbrown@WEBMART.NET>
Subject:      Re: "justification" and the plot's the thing
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19980715224001.00698ac4@pop.mindspring.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:40 PM -0400 7/15/98, Georgia E. Walden wrote:

>And just to be really perverse <g> the stories written for the "fifth
>season" that I've read seem like what-ifs to me, despite their intent of
>being within continuity as far as possible.  Go figure. ;)

Gasp!  /me pulls the knife out of my heart.  Georgia, how could you?? <bg>

Darn, and here I thought we had done so well at positioning them as real
eps.  Oh well, you can't please everyone.  :)

Kathy (smoothing down my exaggeratedly ruffled feathers.  Hey, just because
I think my kid is the cutest thing in the world, doesn't mean everyone else
will. <g>)

______________________
Kathy Brown
kbrown@webmart.net  <------ Please note new address! :)
KathyB on IRC
______________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:33:02 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Leanne Shawler <volterra@SD.ZNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: My Personal Take on Fanfic (Was Justification)
In-Reply-To:  <c8e3da34.35ad4391@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>In a message dated 98-07-15 10:30:43 EDT, volterra@SD.ZNET.COM writes:
>
><< Looking at the stuff I've written: there's my Celtic/Arthurian novel
> (currently stalled, I want to do an excellent job at that one), my Regency
> Romance ... >>
>
>Yikes, after seeing Leanne's list, I wondered how many of you fanfic
writers
>eventually end up with something published that you actually, maybe, got
paid
>for... (or maybe some of you will someday and we can all say we knew you
when
>;)   )
>
Mine's a "someday" goal. The Regency rewrite is in fact, a step towards
that goal (although I keep reading that the market is shrinking to
miniscule proportions, but dammit I *want* to write a Regency. Er, sorry.)
In the meantime, I'm having fun, er procrastinating, honing my craft and
doing research, which I think I love almost as much as writing!

I think I finished my last post before I got to my point *grin*. Which was,
that I write stacks of stuff (or start to), those that are completed are
the ones that I have an audience for (L&C, Mis, Buffy ...). Even my
butt-kickin' Ophelia story (in the sense that Ophelia had a spine not that
it's rip-snortingly brilliant, that I defer to others) was written because
my email buddy *insisted* on reading after I told her I'd started on it.
So, if anyone wants to read any of the suggested (nonL&C) stories on my
list, ya got pester me :)

Leanne

Leanne Shawler aka Volterra on IRC (volterra@sd.znet.com)
Web Design: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/design/webdesign.html
Home Page: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/leanne.html
Midnight Dreaming: The Original Anthony Warlow Home Page:
http://www.zweb.com/volterra/anthony.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:35:07 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Leanne Shawler <volterra@SD.ZNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: "justification" and the plot's the thing
In-Reply-To:  <01IZFSY4X5EW009T93@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>thats why the networks hire many writers.  They each keep each other on
>their toes and steer them in the right direction.  Maybe to get from A to
>B you could use a co-writer.     --Mercedes

After having done Season 5, I suspect it's so that the main
writers/producers of a tv show don't have major nervous breakdowns. Many
writers spoil the continuity (to twist a common saying).

Leanne

Leanne Shawler aka Volterra on IRC (volterra@sd.znet.com)
Web Design: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/design/webdesign.html
Home Page: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/leanne.html
Midnight Dreaming: The Original Anthony Warlow Home Page:
http://www.zweb.com/volterra/anthony.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:42:34 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Leanne Shawler <volterra@SD.ZNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: "justification" and the plot's the thing
In-Reply-To:  <l0313030cb1d3262eb707@[206.141.211.98]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>At 10:40 PM -0400 7/15/98, Georgia E. Walden wrote:
>
>>And just to be really perverse <g> the stories written for the "fifth
>>season" that I've read seem like what-ifs to me, despite their intent of
>>being within continuity as far as possible.  Go figure. ;)
>
>
Doesn't seem perverse to me at all. (*Leanne pats down Kathy's reruffled
feathers*) When you think about it, Lois & Clark finished at "Family Hour"
-- anything beyond that is a "what if". The fact that there were a number
of fanfic season 5's started gave us a number of different ways L&C could
go.

Leanne

Leanne Shawler aka Volterra on IRC (volterra@sd.znet.com)
Web Design: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/design/webdesign.html
Home Page: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/leanne.html
Midnight Dreaming: The Original Anthony Warlow Home Page:
http://www.zweb.com/volterra/anthony.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 00:09:44 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kbrown@WEBMART.NET>
Subject:      Re: "justification" and the plot's the thing
In-Reply-To:  <l03130306b1d334e267f6@[207.167.64.46]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 8:42 PM -0800 7/15/98, Leanne Shawler wrote:

>Doesn't seem perverse to me at all. (*Leanne pats down Kathy's reruffled
>feathers*) When you think about it, Lois & Clark finished at "Family Hour"
>-- anything beyond that is a "what if". The fact that there were a number
>of fanfic season 5's started gave us a number of different ways L&C could
>go.

Well said, Leanne.  This is entirely true, of course. :)

Kathy (see what happens when you can't go to bed because the dryer is still
running?  My mom planted this vision of dryer lint fires in me since I was
a kid ... it's a curse. <g>)

______________________
Kathy Brown
kbrown@webmart.net  <------ Please note new address! :)
KathyB on IRC
______________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:36:29 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         salymc <salymc@GATEWAY.NET>
Subject:      Re: My Personal Take on Fanfic (Was Justification)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Leanne said:
>Looking at the stuff I've written: there's my Celtic/Arthurian novel
>(currently stalled, I want to do an excellent job at that one), my Regency
>Romance (in rewrite, and inspired by a dreadful B. Cartland movie -- I
>guess I have to thank BC for getting me into the whole Regency thing ...
>I've devoured Heyer etc ever since!), my incomplete Three Musketeers fic
>(pure "Mary Sue" and only one or two people have seen it, hey I may finish
>it), and a rewrite (completed) of "Hamlet" from Ophelia's point of view
>(written after seeing the Branagh film, which was brilliant but revitalised
>my high school complaints of Shakey doing poorly by the women).

Rewriting Hamlet?!  Well ... no guts, no glory!

Although I haven't been spending anytime rewriting the Bard lately, what I
have been doing in my spare time -- beyond sticking pins in my Bill Gates
voodoo doll -- is reading "The Comedy Writer," by Peter Farrelly.  (A friend
gave it to me for my birthday.)  It's a novel, which, I'm assuming, is
loosely based upon the author's own experiences.  Farrelly is one of the
co-writers and co-director of the new movie, "There's Something About Mary".

The book jacket says:  "A Confederacy of Dunces" meets "The Player" in an
offbeat, sidesplittingly hilarious novel about making it against all odds in
1990s' Hollywood, by the co-writer/director of "Dumb and Dumber".  Well!...
Now, THAT certainly made me want to read this.... I almost didn't start it.
However, I'm glad I did.  It's rather entertaining ... and funny (except
that I don't think I want to read another scene about this guy's ... um ...
personal moments).  I'm definitely going to write to him and tell him he's
going to go blind.

Why do I bring it up?  Other than the fact that it tells an interesting tale
of a 30-something guy, chucking it all and trying to break into the bizness,
there was one scene which was really vivid for me.  Farrelly's protagonist
tries to "BS" his way onto the Warner Brothers lot (our home away from home)
and manages to get in to see the President.  I could picture this so well.
He talks about grabbing lunch at the Taco Bell outside, walking by the
guard, waving his script and lunch bag as if he belonged, and then managing
to lie his way into the executive offices.  Hmm.  Why didn't some of *you*
think of that?

Anyway, talk about fanfic.  I wonder how much of this is fiction?
Sandy
salymc@gateway.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:01:54 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: "justification" and the plot's the thing
Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>> You can always disagree with me, but you're still required to patroniz=
e
my
fruit stand just outside the city limits near the Interstate ;) <<

Oh, gee, do I *have* to?  Aw, shucks...

>>  My goal is to write something I hope is entertaining, thought-
provoking or just plain funny ;)  The continuity issue is simply my
personal
approach to obtaining the above goal. <<

Well, maybe it's easier for you to do than it would be for me; in order t=
o
for me keep things in continuity, I'd have to make it a goal <g> because
it's not my natural approach.

>> Some write an outline first and yet I find it
impossible to create an outline because I never know how my story is goin=
g
to
end until I get to the end.  <<

Here, too... I've been trying lately to do outlines (Season 5/6)
because otherwise I'm afraid I won't be able to do anything coherent, but=

it's only a very rough guideline, and if things turn a different way whil=
e
I'm writing it, the outline will be happily tossed aside.  You and I also=

tend to write shorter stories, I suspect that plays a part in it... but
maybe not.

>>>>I do think you can change circumstances in order to shift the
character's reactions, and still maintain the spirit of the characters. <=
<<

I agree this is true, if you mean for example Superman said "I love you
too,
Lois" at the end of Barbarians at the Planet, Lois's reaction would have
been
a whole lot different from what we saw<g> <<

Hmm, not exactly.  That's not changing the circumstance, that's
directly altering Clark's reaction at that point, and that seems more lik=
e
tinkering with the characters (although it could still be a terrific
story).  I was thinking more along the lines of changing outside things..=
=2E.
say, for instance, that at the start of Forget Me Not, it was recommended=

that Lois be treated as an out-patient, *not* as a resident of a clinic. =

That change doesn't contradict anything, characterwise, but it sure opens=

up new possibilities.  A lot of revelation stories tend to fit this
pattern... the author says, up until this point, things are just like we
saw them on the series, but then this new sequence of events happened,
let's see what goes on from there.

>>  there's so many ways that writers for Lois and Clark can
play around with continuity and still have it *be* continuity that I only=

get
satisfaction when I can make it work on that level. <<

Well, I sure like to read what you write, so by all means, keep it up <g>=

>> Nothing we
did to the pilot was permanent, but playing with "what ifs" in the pilot
was
fun.  Yet due to the extraordinary powers of Mxyzptlk, it was all kept
within
continuity. <<

Yep, that was a ton of fun <g>  I'm actually doing something similar,
now, based on an idea Missy had for a series of stories in which L&C get
together at various "too early" points in the series, and then poor Herbi=
e
has to chase around after them setting things straight <g>  (The series i=
s
open to any writer who's interested; write to me or missytoo@mindspring.c=
om
for details <g>)

PJ

!^NavFont02F09910063MGJHG76MG78HG97MG99HHsMHuHHBBMHBDHI|MI~HJ66MJ67HK7BMK=
7D
HME BMMEDHN85MN87HNC0MNC2HO53MO55HP6BMP82HP928034
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:01:53 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Ta + OT: Miles at the DP (was Re: "justification" &tc)
Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>> who is miles vorkosigan?  what his significance? <<

Miles Naismith Vorkosigan is the main character in a series of science
fiction books written by Lois McMaster Bujold.  I'm a huge fan of her
writing, and apparently a few others here are familiar with her books as
well.  We were just speculating on crossover possibilities with L&C; sinc=
e
they have access to a time machine, they do have latitude to cross over
with any number of sci-fi things...

Sorry if we've bored/confused/annoyed you... :-)

PJ
who's got a t-shirt saying:
"Vorkosigan/Naismith 2000:
the *real* split ticket" =

which is roughly analogous to a =

ticket of Clark and Superman...

!^NavFont02F021A000CMGJHGsMGuHIb24F4
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:39:57 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Regina Gilchrist Ash <rash@DNET.NET>
Subject:      Supergirl ? & Possible spoilers for S5 Ep 22 & TUFS Full
Circle

I just wanted to mention this in case you haven't read them, yet...

OK, so I know that the S5 FoLC are thinking (more than thinking, I hope) of
doing S6...just a couple personal requests: *IF* Lex does get his hands on
the baby, *please* don't let her be away from her parents for long...no
more than one ep. If you do, I can't read it (maybe skim it and then read
the ending :) It's just too traumatic for me, and as a parent, our worst
nightmare. (It's also too argh-ish for me...I mean 5 episodes...it still
ticks me off.) I know it provides some great storyline possiblities, but I
just can't take that kind of a WHAM for long. I know many other readers may
not feel this way at all, and it's just a personal thing...but it's my
take.

Sheila's "A Shot in the Dark" had the big wham at the beginning, but she
warned us and promised us she'd leave the toys back in place...besides the
getting them back in their places was a great deal of fun (since L&C were
*together* doing it) {especially the nfic version...it was wonderful,
incredible, loving, fit perfectly, etc. gush, gush} Now, however, Lois &
CLark are not suuposed to be alone, together...they're a family. Baby's
gotta be along for a lot of the ride...or it'd be too much like the old
Lois dream-sequences in the SIlver age comics.

I liked that TUFS had a boy, and I've heard that it wasn't all that
coincidental <g>...I hadn't heard anything about a TUSS (sounds too much
like  acough syrup...you guys may need to come up with a new acronym :) and
I'd very much (selfishly, I admit) like for there to be one. I've enjoyed
TUFS and S5 every bit as much as the show.

Now, to the Supergirl question...on alt.comics.Superman newsgroup, there is
talk of a series about Supergirl (called The Maid of Steel or something
along those lines) and rumors that it'll be produced by the same folks (not
FoLCs, necessarily) as L&C. Has anyone heard any reliable info or is it
just net-gossip-garbage? Also, anymore info on the new Wonderwoman series
that I heard mentioned briefly earlier in the year?

I guess that's about enough...

Regina (FoLC with a quest for reliable intel...)
--
Regina Ash (rash@dnet.net)
************************************************
"Science, sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable
>from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke
***********************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:01:25 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Ali Tavakoly <vegeta@JPS.NET>
Subject:      Announcement:)
Comments: To: BSG Listserv <BSG-THEME@LIB01.FERRIS.EDU>,
          "bsg-fanfic@eyrie.org" <bsg-fanfic@eyrie.org>,
          "escaflowne-ml@unixg.ubc.ca" <escaflowne-ml@unixg.ubc.ca>,
          Gundam List <gundam@aeug.org>,
          ee-fanfic@lists.x-philes.com, x-over@lists.x-philes.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Greetings,
My web page, Vegeta's Palace, is finnaly going through with it's host
page. This page will host fan interviews of thier beloved charcters. The
charcters will  be primarly  from anime, fantisy and scifi sources.
Althoug I have no objections of Someone from out side this range. So if
you wish to do an interview with Stephino Demera Or sammy Brady go
ahead. Villans are allways wellcomed:) Please email me in private as to
save up on bandwith. and not bother peopel who are not interested.
Please give me the charcter the series, and when you can have it doen
by:)
http://www.jps.net/vegeta/
peace,
ali
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:12:53 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: My Personal Take on Fanfic
In-Reply-To:  <002201bdb0b6$5c3d4e60$e8312581@oemcomputer>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:36 AM 7/16/98 -0400, you wrote:
>  It's rather entertaining ... and funny (except
>that I don't think I want to read another scene about this guy's ... um ...
>personal moments).  I'm definitely going to write to him and tell him he's
>going to go blind.
>

What is this 1898? Reminds me of the good old days when women weren't
allowed to vote...

>
>
>Anyway, talk about fanfic.  I wonder how much of this is fiction?
>Sandy
>salymc@gateway.net
>

Are you asking about what he wrote or what you wrote?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
| "What's done to children, they will do to society." - Karl Menninger|
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:26:38 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         salymc <salymc@GATEWAY.NET>
Subject:      Re: My Personal Take on Fanfic
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

.>>At 08:36 AM 7/16/98 -0400, you wrote:
  It's rather entertaining ... and funny (except that I don't think I want
to read another scene about this guy's ... um ... personal moments).  I'm
definitely going to write to him and tell him he's going to go blind.<<

>What is this 1898?<

No, it's the 1990's -- the Lorena Bobbitt decade.

>>Reminds me of the good old days when women weren't allowed to vote...<<

You remember those days, Gary?

>>Anyway, talk about fanfic.  I wonder how much of this is fiction?
>>Sandy
>>salymc@gateway.net
>
>Are you asking about what he wrote or what you wrote?<

Well, I'm sure that *that* part of his novel is completely
autobiographical.<g>  As for my comments, they were tongue-in-cheeks-ville.

*Still*, one scene like that makes the point, two scenes like that *really*
makes the point, three scenes and I'm mumbling, "Okay, I get it... You're
really lonely" -- AND, it's *only* page 62 of a 351 page book.  Frankly, I'm
hoping he gets lucky soon because I'm feeling real sorry for him.

As for the author himself, he's a success!  He probably has bimbos crawling
all over him!  *And*, I bet they don't  vote!  So, he has the best of both
worlds -- easy women with no public obligations!

Sandy
salymc@gateway.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:48:09 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         salymc <salymc@GATEWAY.NET>
Subject:      Open for Business:  Sandy's House of L&C Fanfic
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello L&C Fanfic Readers:

I thought I'd take a break from slaying the microsoftware serpent to let you
know that I now have a webpage devoted solely to my Lois and Clark Fanfic.

With the very kind help of Genevieve, it is now open for visitors....
Actually, it was all her idea.  Once I had separated my personal and
professional use of the internet via a home computer, I felt comfortable
enough to present my stories, *both* n-fic and reg-fic, on a public page.
She kindly offered to give me some space through her account and proceeded
to build a very nice platform for them.  Many of you have probably read the
stories, so other than the page, itself, the specific contents won't be new.
However, there are probably a few newcomers who haven't read them, and I
welcome them to the site.

For those who visit -- if you have any suggestions for the page, let me
know.  I'm sure it will evolve over time.  I will be adding a new story -- a
regular fic story -- within the near future.  And, someday, I hope to take
the  burden of maintenance from Genevieve ; ) and manage it on my own....

God, knows what will happen to it then....  It'll probably disappear into
the restaurant at the end of the universe.<g>  Anyway, the address is:

http://www.erols.com/nightsky/Sandy/

Please be aware that some of this material is n-fic and there are very, very
clear warnings and provisos prominently displayed.

Sandy (in D.C.) -- wow, feels like old times with that sign-off.
salymc@gateway.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:15:31 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Mercedes Galvez-Arango <MGALVEZ@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: My Personal Take on Fanfic
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Maybe I missed the boat but who are you talking about?  Who's autobiography
are you talking about?  --Mercedes
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:48:53 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Leanne Shawler <volterra@SD.ZNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: My Personal Take on Fanfic (Was Justification)
In-Reply-To:  <002201bdb0b6$5c3d4e60$e8312581@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Why do I bring it up?  Other than the fact that it tells an interesting
tale
>of a 30-something guy, chucking it all and trying to break into the
bizness,
>there was one scene which was really vivid for me.  Farrelly's protagonist
>tries to "BS" his way onto the Warner Brothers lot (our home away from
home)
>and manages to get in to see the President.  I could picture this so well.
>He talks about grabbing lunch at the Taco Bell outside, walking by the
>guard, waving his script and lunch bag as if he belonged, and then managing
>to lie his way into the executive offices.  Hmm.  Why didn't some of *you*
>think of that?
>
Hey! I've *eaten* at that Taco Bell!!!!!!! It's just down the street from
the entrance to the WB tour ... I insisted on eating something before going
traipsing over the backlot. I didn't fancy fainting ...

(Just thought I'd share)

Leanne

Leanne Shawler aka Volterra on IRC (volterra@sd.znet.com)
Web Design: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/design/webdesign.html
Home Page: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/leanne.html
Midnight Dreaming: The Original Anthony Warlow Home Page:
http://www.zweb.com/volterra/anthony.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 01:14:36 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: My Personal Take on Fanfic
In-Reply-To:  <000801bdb12a$54ba9a20$07312581@oemcomputer>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:26 PM 7/16/98 -0400, you wrote:
>.>>At 08:36 AM 7/16/98 -0400, you wrote:
>  It's rather entertaining ... and funny (except that I don't think I want
>to read another scene about this guy's ... um ... personal moments).  I'm
>definitely going to write to him and tell him he's going to go blind.<<
>
>
>>What is this 1898?<
>
>No, it's the 1990's -- the Lorena Bobbitt decade.
>
>
Good Choice...(but I've already written a L&C nfic about her) and the
reason they were able to reattach Mr. Bobbit's...er...member is because
that part of the anatomy to normally oxygen deprived (oxygen is carried
by the blood, in case you didn't know) and so regular 'use' of said
member is not only enjoyable, but indeed medically necessary...
(I could include more info about the prostate, but I sure you don't
care.)

>>>Reminds me of the good old days when women weren't allowed to vote...<<
>
>You remember those days, Gary?
>
>

Yes I do. History class.

>
>
>Well, I'm sure that *that* part of his novel is completely
>autobiographical.<g>  As for my comments, they were tongue-in-cheeks-ville.
>
>*Still*, one scene like that makes the point, two scenes like that *really*
>makes the point, three scenes and I'm mumbling, "Okay, I get it... You're
>really lonely" -- AND, it's *only* page 62 of a 351 page book.  Frankly,
I'm
>hoping he gets lucky soon because I'm feeling real sorry for him.
>

No, you don't get it.

>As for the author himself, he's a success!  He probably has bimbos crawling
>all over him!  *And*, I bet they don't  vote!  So, he has the best of both
>worlds -- easy women with no public obligations!
>
>Sandy
>salymc@gateway.net
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
| "What's done to children, they will do to society." - Karl Menninger|
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:05:04 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Grace Wong <lois1979@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Feedbacks: Love 'em or hate 'em
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hello folcs:
It's been awhile since I posted anything, but I was thinking of this
last night and I just had to get this out of my system.
I know all fanfic writers like feedbacks, wheather it's complimentary
of disparging. I admit as a writer, I'd like feedbacks. (although I've
only written two fanfics)
However, as a reader, I hesitate to send feedbacks to the authors, no
matter how good the story is. Because I don't know what to write to
them. Should I just say: Hi there, I really like/love you story or
should I describe in details what I like/love about it?
I found that writing my thoughts down are harder than saying them out
loud (i.e. I express myself better orally than in writing-you can tell
by the amount of fanfics I write:)
Also, I wonder if the writers may also be confused by the feedbacks
readers give. Of course it's nice to receive an email saying: I
enjoyed your fanfic.
But what did they enjoyed about it? Was it the plot that's original?
Or is it because the way the writer experssed the characters' feelings?
I'd like to hear from both writers and readers on this subject. For
writers-what kind of feedback do you appreciate the most? For
readers-do you enjoy sharing your thoughts with the author or do you
find it hard to
tell them about your feelings (like me :P)
Best regards, Grace

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:52:00 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Hall, Melissa" <MHall05@SPRINTSPECTRUM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Feedbacks: Love 'em or hate 'em
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Grace Wong said:
>It's been awhile since I posted anything, but I was thinking of this
>last night and I just had to get this out of my system.
>I know all fanfic writers like feedbacks, wheather it's complimentary
>of disparging. I admit as a writer, I'd like feedbacks. (although I've
>only written two fanfics)

Heck- I haven't written anything (yet!) and I still want feedback! ;) (I
swear- I will finish something someday...)

>However, as a reader, I hesitate to send feedbacks to the authors, no
>matter how good the story is. Because I don't know what to write to
>them. Should I just say: Hi there, I really like/love you story or
>should I describe in details what I like/love about it?
>I found that writing my thoughts down are harder than saying them out
>loud (i.e. I express myself better orally than in writing-you can tell
>by the amount of fanfics I write:)

I tend to think faster on my fingers than my feet, but my writing style
and my conversational style are vastly different- I write email as if I
were actually speaking, and well... IRL I'm more of a listener than a
talker.

>Also, I wonder if the writers may also be confused by the feedbacks
>readers give. Of course it's nice to receive an email saying: I
>enjoyed your fanfic.
>But what did they enjoyed about it? Was it the plot that's original?
>Or is it because the way the writer experssed the characters' feelings?
>I'd like to hear from both writers and readers on this subject. For
>writers-what kind of feedback do you appreciate the most? For
>readers-do you enjoy sharing your thoughts with the author or do you
>find it hard to tell them about your feelings (like me :P)

Hah- the reason I tend to keep my mouth shut is that at the end of a
fanfic I like, I tend to think: "Damn- that was good- I should write the
author and tell her I like it!" (Well, it's usually a her. :) And then I
sit in front of the computer, keyboard-in-lap and I can't figure out
what I want to say.

"That was good, I liked it." sounds particularly inane and rather
brainless and I figure, hey, I went to college and took an English
class- I should be able to string a few words together and say _why_.
And then I string a few words together, look at them, and proceed to
roll my eyes in frustration, delete them all, and move on to reading the
next fanfic. :)

I've actually written a few authors. Emphasis on 'few'. *sigh* There are
a good dozen or two more whose work I enjoy, and I'd like to tell them
that I do, but I can never summon the words when I try to write them and
say why. Anyway- enough of my frustrated ramblings- we now return you to
your regular programming.

Misha
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:10:38 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         goldengrove unleaving <kubitc@KENYON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Feedbacks: Love 'em or hate 'em

<< For writers-what kind of feedback do you appreciate the most? >>

I think the best feedback is anything that helps you get an idea as to why
the
reader liked/disliked your story. It's nice to get an e-mail saying that
someone read and liked your story, but that doesn't help you to know what
they
liked about it so that you can keep that in mind for your next story. I
don't
know if most writers feel this way, but getting negative feedback, though it
may sting a little initially, can be helpful as well, *if* the reader tells
you
why they didn't like your story. But if you have trouble giving feedback,
it's
better to e-mail and just say that you enjoyed their story than not to;
sometimes writers wonder if anyone out there is actually reading their
stuff,
or if it's just cyber-clutter. ;)

So that makes me wonder something- do many readers write authors with
negative
feedback? I know that readers must read stories they don't like (many
readers
have said that they've gotten pickier in what fanfic they read than they had
initially been), so do readers write much negative feedback? And if you do
write it, how often do you write it? (Would you be more likely to send
negative
feedback if the story were really bad, or there was just one part that
didn't
sit well with you?)

<< For readers-do you enjoy sharing your thoughts with the author or do you
find it hard to tell them about your feelings (like me :P) >>

As a reader, I actually enjoy writing other authors and telling them that I
liked their stories. When I first started reading fanfic, if I would've
written to everyone whose story I enjoyed, I would've had to make a
full-time
career out of it. But that was because there were so many good stories
already
there for me to read (plus I hadn't written any fanfic myself, so didn't
know
how important feedback was), and I had to "catch up." Now, though, as new
stuff
comes along, I share my thoughts with writers more often, at least when real
life doesn't get in the way <g> And I think it's always nice to hear back
from
a writer after you've given them feedback; there's nothing more frustrating
than finishing a story where the author practically begs for feedback, then
never sends you an e-mail back when you give them some.

-Christy
 kubitc@kenyon.edu
 Attalanta on IRC
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:35:43 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Sandra McDermin <SMcDermi@NAS.EDU>
Subject:      My Personal Take & a Fic Idea That's Shakespearean
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>>Maybe I missed the boat but who are you talking about?  Who's
autobiography are you talking about?  --Mercedes<<

We're talking about a book I'm reading entitled, "The Comedy Writer," by
Peter Farrelly.  It's not an autobiography -- supposedly.

****
Leanne said:
>>Hey! I've *eaten* at that Taco Bell!!!!!!! It's just down the street from
the entrance to the WB tour ... I insisted on eating something before going
traipsing over the backlot. I didn't fancy fainting ...
(Just thought I'd share)<<

Exactly.... I think I went to a Burger King or something.  (I was really
surprised that there weren't better restaurants along that strip catering
to all those workers....  Someone could make a fortune providing some
decent food.)

By the way, the author also has a scene at a Hard Rock Cafe.  I feel like
I'm reliving LAFF.

****
I said:
>>*Still*, one scene like that makes the point, two scenes like that
*really* makes the point, three scenes and I'm mumbling, "Okay, I get it...
You're really lonely" -- AND, it's *only* page 62 of a 351 page book.
Frankly, I'm hoping he gets lucky soon because I'm feeling real sorry for
him.<<

Gary said:
>No, you don't get it.<

Touche.

************************
On to another topic:  A Fanfic Idea

Last night, I was reading a story called "Kent Lost and Found" by Shelly.
It's another next generation fic.  It was interesting for its take on the
child of L&C and her reactions to Clark, but I would have liked more on L&C
themselves -- their first night together after a long absence, discussions
about their child, etc.  It's devoid of a lot of necessary L&C interaction
--> I know that the author was trying to address the younger Kent
specifically, but unfortunately it cries out for more from the other
characters.  (Maybe I'll give a more thorough review of the story later.)

One thing I'll mention now, though, "Kent Lost and Found" does do an
excellent job of moving in and out of past memories and present time.   I
am dealing with that structural problem myself and am afraid that I'm
making it terribly confusing for the reader.  Shelly's story does it quite
well, however.

Anyway, what I *really* wanted to say is that this story also gave me
another idea for a fic.  It introduces a fictional character -- not a known
L&C character -- who I have actually thought of creating myself....

Suppose Lex had gotten married again, as happened in Season 5.  Suppose
>from that marriage a little Luthor is born who is not necessarily a bad
person.  (I mean, genes aren't everything.)  Now suppose L&C also have a
child of the opposite sex from the Luthors'....  And, furthermore, say they
don't know about each other, meet by chance, and fall in love -- sort of
like Romeo and Juliet.  Don't you think *that* might be interesting.
Instead of the Montagues and Capulets, we have the Kents and the Luthors
dealing with their children falling in love with the "enemy".  Intriguing,
I think.

Hey, Leanne, this is Shakespearean.  Give it a try.

Sandy
salymc@gateway.net
http://www.erols.com/nightsky/Sandy/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:16:57 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Feedbacks: Love 'em or hate 'em
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-07-17 12:12:29 EDT, kubitc@KENYON.EDU writes:

<< So that makes me wonder something- do many readers write authors with
negative
 feedback? >>

Well, the most negative feedback I would give would be a bashing of someone
cause they didn't bother to spellcheck or proof read--or get a proof reader
if
they don't have a command of spelling and grammar. And if it's that bad, I'm
not likely to write cause I wouldn't know how to say this politely!

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:49:44 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Regina Gilchrist Ash <rash@DNET.NET>
Subject:      Feedback & Shakespeare

I try to always send feedback to an author when I've really enjoyed a
story; however, when I've thought a fic was so-so, or I didn't like it at
all, I don't send feedback. I figure they've put effort into it, and taste
is very subjective. I do agree with Sandy (?) or whoever said what they did
about spelling, grammar, etc...those kinds of errors (numerous, gross
mistakes....everyone makes typos once in a while...or when an author makes
the same mistake over and over) really turn me off and I won't even finish
reading a story. I have to admit, I've seen *many* of these. I don't *try*
to catch mistakes...they just jump right out at me, and it's not because
I'm an English teacher, either (math, for those who care :)

I *loved* the idea of a Kent/Luthor progeny romance. What a great idea!
Someone who writes well should take this one up (not me, I only read!)

Anyway, the topics on the list have been pretty neat, recently. Too bad I
start back to school in 2+ weeks, and won't have the time to spend reading
this stuff...

Later, FoLC,
Regina

--
Regina Ash (rash@dnet.net)
************************************************
"Science, sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable
>from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke
***********************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:54:45 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         "B.B. Medos" <bbmedos@GEOCITIES.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fic Idea That's Shakespearean
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At 01:35 PM 7/17/98 -0400, Sandra McDermin wrote:
>On to another topic:  A Fanfic Idea
>Suppose Lex had gotten married again, as happened in Season 5.  Suppose
>>from that marriage a little Luthor is born who is not necessarily a bad
>person.  (I mean, genes aren't everything.)  Now suppose L&C also have a
>child of the opposite sex from the Luthors'....  And, furthermore, say they
>don't know about each other, meet by chance, and fall in love -- sort of
>like Romeo and Juliet.  Don't you think *that* might be interesting.
>Instead of the Montagues and Capulets, we have the Kents and the Luthors
>dealing with their children falling in love with the "enemy".  Intriguing,
>I think.

Wwwwwwweeeeeelllllllllllll, I think I actually have notes on something like
this somewhere around here. The idea may have started as a sequel to
Sanctuary, but then veered in another direction to explain away something
>from another little tidbit I did that got some very, um, mixed reactions
for a very specific reason related to their son. Wonder how many will
figure that one out? Kathy, shut up. <vbeg> But if I remember correctly,
the ideas I did have had some rather strange twists in mind. The reason it
never got off the ground as a story though was that I could never decide on
which gender roles would work best - i.e. which progeny should be male or
female, the Kent or the Luthor?

The dynamics could vary considerably depending on which was chosen. A male
Kent and female Luthor could play out just like a repeat of Lois and
Clark's story but with some major changes mainly because the obvious
assumption is that a male child of theirs would be more like Clark than
Lois. Could be true, but it also might not be and the results could be very
interesting when the unknown of a female Luthor is taken into consideration.

However, change it to a female Kent and a male Luthor and suddenly there
are completely new dimensions to the characters because a really big
question arises. The natural assumption is to make a male Luthor a copy of
Lex, more or less, but would a female Kent be more like Lois or Clark in
personality? And what if Luthor, Junior, is both like and unlike Daddy no
matter who the Kent's daughter takes after? Occassionally there are romance
heroes and heroines that define convention just like L&C does, but for the
most part heroes ARE more like Lex AND Lois than Clark and Clark's very
goodness and faith are usually found in heroines rather than in the heroes.
The personality combinations are mind-boggling when carried to the next
generation.

For instance, right this moment, I'm reading a romantic suspence called
Naked In Death by Nora Roberts, the first in her In Death series about a
female homicide cop in the twenty-first century. Eve Dallas is driven,
dedicated, and tough as nails. Her love interest is a self-made, enigmatic,
multi-billionaire who also happens to be a suspect in her ongoing
investigation. So far great story, but for a L&C fan, it's very distracting
to feel like I'm reading the developing love story between Lois and Lex.
Oye. I keep waiting for another character to make an appearance <G> but the
truth is that the story works.

When I think about it, the true unknown in this is the mother of Luthor's
child. Who she is, what she believes and does, past and present, could
provide the spin to the story to make it unique and believeable. Tradegy or
comedy waiting to happen? Could go either way depending on the writer, but
I don't think it automatically has to be a tradegy.

Beverly :-)

******************************************************************
Beverly Latham <blatham@hop-uky.campus.mci.net>
aka B.B. Medos <bbmedos@geocities.com>
<http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ridge/4737/b00sanctuary.html>
******************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 11:34:01 -1000
Reply-To:     shore@maui.net
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Jamee Jones <shore@MAUI.NET>
Subject:      Re: Feedbacks: Love 'em or hate 'em
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Grace Wong wrote:

> >>However, as a reader, I hesitate to send feedbacks to the authors,
> no
> matter how good the story is. Because I don't know what to write to
> them. Should I just say: Hi there, I really like/love you story or
> should I describe in details what I like/love about it?
> I found that writing my thoughts down are harder than saying them out
> loud
> (snipped)
> I'd like to hear from both writers and readers on this subject. For
> writers-what kind of feedback do you appreciate the most? For
> readers-do you enjoy sharing your thoughts with the author or do you
> find it hard to
> tell them about your feelings (like me :P)
> Best regards, Grace<<

I'm glad you brought this up Grace, because I am always feeling so
guilty about not sending in feedback!  A lot of the problem is time.
It's a rare and precious moment when I actually have time to read
fanfic, and to actually have time to send feedback right after I'm done,
while it is still fresh in my mind---that never happens!  So the next
time I have a moment I'm afraid I'm a bit selfish and rather than
writting the author with some comments, I just start reading another
fic! sorry :)  But the other main problem is exactly what Grace said, I
just don't know what to write, and when I do have feelings about a story
I really have the hardest time writting them down. Sometimes I start and
all I get out is "Wow I really liked this story!" Or if it is one that
was just "okay" I hate to just say that! I also feel quite a bit
intimidated by all the wonderful evaluations that others post.  Everyone
seems to really know their 'stuff' and I feel like anything I write
would be so juvenile!

As for sending back negative comments, that would be the hardest for
me!  Even though the authors say they can take it and that it helps, it
is still very hard for me! I feel like if I can't even write, who am I
too say they should of done this or that?  But I do enjoy reading what
others have said about fic's wether pos or neg.  Maybe it will help me
to do my share in letting the authors know what we think.

I do want all the authors to know that this fanfic reader greatly
appreciates all their hardwork, and I don't want any of them to think
that their stuff is just taking up cyberspace! I pray for a never ending
supply of L&C fic's!  And I'll do my 'darndest' to try and respond when
I can!

jamee

>
>
>

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<HTML>
Grace Wong wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>>>However, as a reader, I hesitate to send feedbacks
to the authors, no
<BR>matter how good the story is. Because I don't know what to write to
<BR>them. Should I just say: Hi there, I really like/love you story or
<BR>should I describe in details what I like/love about it?
<BR>I found that writing my thoughts down are harder than saying them out
<BR>loud
<BR>(snipped)
<BR>I'd like to hear from both writers and readers on this subject. For
<BR>writers-what kind of feedback do you appreciate the most? For
<BR>readers-do you enjoy sharing your thoughts with the author or do you
<BR>find it hard to
<BR>tell them about your feelings (like me :P)
<BR>Best regards, Grace&lt;&lt;</BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm glad you brought this up Grace, because I am always feeling so guilty
about not sending in feedback!&nbsp; A lot of the problem is time.&nbsp;
It's a rare and precious moment when I actually have time to read fanfic,
and to actually have time to send feedback right after I'm done, while
it is still fresh in my mind---that never happens!&nbsp; So the next time
I have a moment I'm afraid I'm a bit selfish and rather than writting the
author with some comments, I just start reading another fic! sorry :)&nbsp;
But the other main problem is exactly what Grace said, I just don't know
what to write, and when I do have feelings about a story I really have
the hardest time writting them down. Sometimes I start and all I get out
is "Wow I really liked this story!" Or if it is one that was just "okay"
I hate to just say that! I also feel quite a bit intimidated by all the
wonderful evaluations that others post.&nbsp; Everyone seems to really
know their 'stuff' and I feel like anything I write would be so juvenile!

<P>As for sending back negative comments, that would be the hardest for
me!&nbsp; Even though the authors say they can take it and that it helps,
it is still very hard for me! I feel like if I can't even write, who am
I too say they should of done this or that?&nbsp; But I do enjoy reading
what others have said about fic's wether pos or neg.&nbsp; Maybe it will
help me to do my share in letting the authors know what we think.

<P>I do want all the authors to know that this fanfic reader greatly
appreciates
all their hardwork, and I don't want any of them to think that their stuff
is just taking up cyberspace! I pray for a never ending supply of L&amp;C
fic's!&nbsp; And I'll do my 'darndest' to try and respond when I can!

<P>jamee
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR><A HREF="http://mail.yahoo.com"></A>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------35034955428150F7524063EE--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 19:13:40 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         "Eileen F. Ray" <Eraygun@AOL.COM>
Subject:      New Fanfic Alert : Two New IRC Round Robin Fanfics
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Hi everyone <g>,

The IRC round robin writers have been at it again and I have the pleasures
of
posting our latest offerings :).

The first is "Superman vs. The In-laws," a humorous story in which Ellen
Lane
tries to impose some *togetherness* on her unruly family by inviting them
all
to the beach for a weekend of fun in the sun.  The second is "We're Having a
Baby My Baby and Me", a waffy tale which recounts Lois's attempts to break
the
news of her pregnancy to Clark.

We hope you enjoy them.  As usual, feedback will be appreciated.

Cheers,

Eileen
Eraygun@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 19:13:46 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Eileen F. Ray" <Eraygun@AOL.COM>
Subject:      NEW FANFIC: SUPERMAN VS. THE IN-LAWS Part 1 of 5
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Superman v. The In-laws

An IRC Round-robin by ChrisM^ (mulders@mindspring.com); chrispat
(cp13607@aol.com); CrystalW (JCWimmer@aol.com); Eraygun (Eraygun@aol.com);
Lansbury (lansbury1@aol.com); Mackteach (Mackteach@aol.com); Missytoo
(Missytoo@mindspring.com); Zoomway (zoomway@aol.com)

[ChrisM^]

Lois let herself into her townhouse, juggling keys, grocery bags and her
briefcase, but with a contented smile on her face.  The last couple of days
had been pretty good, and she'd gotten a line on what could possibly be
another great story just that afternoon.  She headed for the kitchen,
noticing
as she went past the desk that the light on the answering machine was
blinking
away like mad.

Wonder where Clark is? she thought as she put away the groceries.  He'd
dashed
away from the grocery store and she hadn't seen him since. She hoped he
wouldn't be too long.  She was looking forward to a nice dinner and then ...
well, they'd just see what developed.

She slipped her shoes off as she headed for the stairs.  It would be nice to
get into something more comfortable before starting dinner.  As she passed
the
answering machine, though, she decided to listen to the messages first.
Maybe
Clark had called.

Most were perfectly harmless ... wouldn't you like a new credit card, Mrs.
Kent ... her doctor's office reminding her of her upcoming appointment ...
Martha calling just to say "Hi" ...  And then, there was the one from her
mother.

"HI, LOIS!" Her mother's distinctive tones leapt through the wires and Lois
took an involuntary step back.  "It's me," she added, unnecessarily.  "I've
just had the most terrific idea ... well, you may not think it's terrific,
but
I hope you'll keep an open mind about this."

Lois rolled her eyes towards heaven.  What now?

"I know that, in the past, we--your father and I--well, we didn't always ...
you know.  But since Sam and I have been ... um, seeing each other again,
sort
of ... well, I uh, I thought ..."

Lois shifted from one foot to the other impatiently.  Spit it out, mother,
she
thought.

"I guess there's no good way to say this, except to say it."

What in the world is going on? Lois wondered.  Just then she heard a
familiar
'whoosh' and turned to see her husband coming down the stairs.  He'd already
changed into his Clark clothes.
He could tell by her face that something was up, but before he could ask,
Ellen's voice interrupted him.

"I'd like for you and Clark, if he wants to that is, to come to a family
weekend that I have planned."    Now that she'd gotten that much out, her
voice took on its usual assurance.  "You'll enjoy this, Lois.  It will be a
chance for us to be together.  I'm inviting Lucy, too. And, oh, it's at the
beach.  I did tell you that part, didn't I?"

Lois and Clark looked at each other.    To say they were stunned would be an
understatement.

[chrispat]

Ellen's voice rushed on. "You have to come. I already told Sam you'd be
there,
and I know you won't want to disappoint him."  Lois rolled her eyes again,
and
Clark groaned.

"Anyway, call me and I'll give you directions. Bye."  The answering machine
beeped.

Lois and Clark looked at each other.  Their plans for a quiet weekend
together
had gone up in smoke.

"Arghhh. Clark, think of something. I'll go mad if I have to spend a whole
weekend with her. I know... we'll tell her your mother is sick and we have
to
go to Kansas." Lois picked up the phone and started to dial, but Clark took
the receiver out of her hand.

"Honey, we can do it. And Sam and Lucy will be there too. It might even be
fun, and if it's at the beach, I'll get to see you in that new bikini you
just
bought." He wiggled his eyebrows suggestively.  "And maybe out of it too."

Lois looked a bit doubtful, but the beach idea was starting to sound good,
even if it included her mother.  "Oh, all right, but you better bring those
speedos I bought you. I'm going to need all the distraction I can get."

Clark grinned. "It's a deal." He bent down and kissed her gently. "By the
way,
hello."

Lois kissed him back. "There's a carload of groceries waiting for Superman.
And I've got a special dessert all planned for tonight." She gave him a pat
and started up the stairs.

[CrystalW]

Clark watched her go with a small smile on his face.  He couldn't wait to
see
her in that bikini...

 *****
As Lois stepped from the jeep, she couldn't help but appreciate the view.
The
waves were rolling in gently, a direct contrast to the more aggressive waves
of the West Coast, but the effect of the sunrise over the blue water was
more
than worth the difference.

Clark was watching his wife rather than the scenery, appreciating the almost
serene look on her face.  He could hardly believe that this was the same
woman
that had looked at him with such panic when she had received the invitation.
She was not merely resigned to the weekend, but actually appeared to be
looking forward to it.

She moved around to the front of the jeep, mesmerized by the sight before
her.
She seemed calm, confident, and Clark couldn't help himself as he slipped up
behind her and placed his hands on her shoulders.  She sighed as she leaned
into him, enjoying the view before her and the warmth behind her.

Clark nearly jumped as far as she did when the chattering voice descended
upon
them, seemingly from nowhere.  One moment they were at peace with the world,
and the next moment a jabbering Lucy was standing between them.  Clark
wasn't
entirely sure what had happened, but he didn't like it.

"Can you believe that Mother did this?" she said, oblivious to Lois'
confusion
and Clark's irritation.  "I had a perfectly nice weekend planned with Jeff,
and now we have to be here.  I can just imagine what she would say if we
insisted on sharing a bed, so here I'm going to have to sleep by myself.
Lois
is there anything you could say?  I mean, I know she won't force you and
Clark
to...."

Lois turned away from her sister and faced her husband.  His frown was
threatening to turn into a smile as he watched Lois being overwhelmed by her
younger sister's babble.  He remembered feeling a similar confusion when he
had first met Lois, and it was rather poetic to see her on the receiving end
of the treatment.

She gave him a tiny glare when she realized that he wasn't going to help
her,
and focused her attention onto her sister.  "LUCY!" she said loudly, to
break
her sister's train of thought.

Lucy stopped in the middle of a sentence, and replied quietly, "You don't
have
to yell."

At the faint pout, Lois smiled and hugged her sister.  Okay, she admitted to
herself, she had missed her just a little.

After exchanging hugs and a quick promise that she would indeed talk to
their
mother about the sleeping arrangements, they finally started walking towards
the beach house.  She knew she would have to face her mother sometime, and
she
was certainly feeling alert enough to do it now.  If nothing else, her
encounter with her sister had shaken her from the relaxed daze that the
scenery had imposed.

Clark followed behind the sisters at a leisurely pace.  He carried a
suitcase
in each hand, and still was smiling slightly.  It was going to be an
interesting weekend, that much was for sure.

[Eraygun]

As they walked Lois decided it would be the perfect opportunity to cross
examine ... er, question, Lucy for a few more details about her latest
significant other.

"So, Lucy, tell me more about ... Jeff.  Where'd you meet him?  What does he
do?"

Lucy rolled her eyes and looked back at Clark. "The more things change..."
she
sighed. "Don't worry, Lois, he's perfectly *normal*.  He works at a health
food store.  That's where I met him."

"Oh."

"We've been going out for the last two months and we have so much in common.
It's just amazing!"

"Oh really, like what?" Lois asked warily.

Lucy hesitated for a few seconds. "Well, we're both vegetarians," she
finally
answered.

"You are? Since when?" Lois said incredulously.

"Since I met Jeff," Lucy replied offhandedly

*****

As they approached the beach house Lois could see a blonde and muscular
young
man with a somewhat dull expression sprawled across a wicker chair.

"Sweetie-pie, you're up from your nap!" Lucy squealed as she dashed away
from
Lois and Clark and headed toward the porch.

"Oh joy, another body by Fisher brains, by Mattel type," Lois hissed to
Clark.

"Well, at least this one's organic, honey."

[Mackteach]

Lois tossed Clark a half-smile as she slowly walked up the front stairs.
Crossing her arms, she stopped before the couple engrossed in a tongue
swallowing competition.  She cleared her throat.  Setting down the
suitcases,
Clark stepped up to Lois, slightly embarrassed to be viewing
such a public display of affection.

Remembering that they were in public, Lucy reluctantly broke off the kiss
and
sat in her boyfriend's lap.  "Jeff,  honey, this is my sister, Lois.  My
*older* sister."  She winked at Lois, taking the sting out of her words.

Lois smiled tightly and nodded.  "Jeff."

"Cool."  Jeff's attention turned to Clark, looking appraisingly at him, as
if
gauging the competition.  "You must be her old man."

Clark smiled, brushing off the competitive tone in his voice.  Extending his
hand, he replied warmly.  "Hi.  I'm Lois' husband, Clark."

Jeff shook hands with Clark, their grips momentarily tightening in the
age-old
male ritual.  Releasing his grip, Jeff looked at Clark with some newfound
respect.  "Cool."

Just as Lois was about to make a comment, the screen door squeaked open.

"Oh, there you are!  I see you've met each other."

Lois rolled her eyes and Clark breathed a low sigh of relief.  Turning to
his
mother-in-law, Clark smiled as brightly as he could.  "Hi, Ellen.  Thank you
for the invitation.  The beach looks great."

"Yes, Mother.  I'm glad you invited us.  Clark and I don't usually get away
like this.  Do we, honey?"  She looked at Clark, her eyes and body language
suddenly softening as it usually did when she looked at Clark.

Clark leaned down and gently kissed her.  "Remind me to take you away more
often."

Lois smiled and softly whispered.  "Deal."

"Hi, Mrs. Lane.  Thank you very much for the invitation.  It was very kind
of
you to include me in this family get together."

Lois and Clark turned in surprise.  Where a slightly dim-witted blonde
"surfer" had been was now a very articulate gentleman.  Lois caught the look
that Lucy gave her.  She made a mental note to ask Lucy later about Jeff's
sudden turnabout.

Ellen practically beamed.  "Why, thank you, Jeff.  When Lucy told me about
her
latest boyfriend, I don't mind telling you that I had some reservations.
But
now that I've met you, I have to say that I'm quite surprised.  You don't
seem
to be at all like her previous beaus."

"More like Jekyll and Hyde," Lois muttered, low enough that only Clark could
hear her.  He put an arm around her waist and gave her a quick squeeze.
Lois
subtly nudged him with her hip.

Lucy spoke up.  "Mother?  About the sleeping arrangements ..."

"Oh, that's one reason I came out here.  It seems that your father didn't
specify exactly how many bedrooms we needed, so there's going to be a slight
change in the sleeping arrangements."

Lois' radar suddenly went on alert.  "Change?  What do you mean by
'change'?"

Continued in part 2
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 19:13:49 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Eileen F. Ray" <Eraygun@AOL.COM>
Subject:      NEW FANFIC: SUPERMAN VS. THE IN-LAWS Part 2 of 5
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Superman v. The In-laws
Continued from part 1
__________________________________
[Mackteach]

Ellen waved a hand at the group and they followed her into the beach house.

She turned to Lois.  "You see, dear, there's only two bedrooms.  Now, I know
you and Clark are married, but Lucy and Jeff aren't and neither are your
father and I.  So ..."  Her voice trailed off.

Lois got a sinking feeling in her stomach.  "Don't tell me ..."

[zoomway]

"Hold it!"  Lois raised a hand. "I did not come all the way out here to have
a
boy-girl slumber party."

"Lois, sweetie," her mother cajoled. "You're married now, it's not like
there's that ... urgency anymore."

Lois folded her arms. "Right now I'm feeling an 'urgency' to head right back
to Metropolis."

Lucy shifted uncomfortably. "Lois, it's just for the weekend."

"When I want your opinion, Benedict Lane, I'll *ask* for it," Lois said. "At
least we're still packed."

"Hey, what's all the shouting?" Sam asked as he came into the room.

"Oh boy," Clark said shaking his head.

Ellen, now a folded-armed mirror of Lois, glanced up at Sam. "It seems our
eldest daughter is unhappy with the sleeping arrangements."

"Well," Sam said with a large smile. "I figured as much, so I got a little
roll-away bed for the den. Problem solved. Three couples, three beds."

Lois smiled and kissed Sam's cheek. "Thank you, Daddy."

"No, Sam, we have one *married* couple and 2 *unmarried* couples."

Sam looked at her dully. "And?  This isn't a church social, Ellen. We're all
adults here."

"Well," Clark said brightly, "I'll just finish unpacking the jeep."

'Coward', Lois thought to herself.

"I'm curious, Sam. Is this just to get back in your daughters' good graces
after years of --"

"Neglect and abandonment," Lucy and Lois said in concert.

Jeff stepped up. "Mr. Lane, Mrs. Lane, if the relationship I have with your
daughter in any way makes you uncomfortable, we'd be happy to go with
whatever
arrangements you feel best."

"Why, thank you, Jeff," Ellen smiled. "You're a breath of fresh air."

"Speaking of," Lois said flatly, "I'll help Clark with the jeep, or whatever
he's really doing."  The squeaky screen slammed shut behind her.

Lois stormed over to the jeep, but Clark was nowhere in sight. She closed
her
eyes and leaned against the door.  "Just another fun-filled get together
with
the Lanes," she sighed. Yawning and raising her hands above her head to
stretch, she suddenly felt two strong hands grasping her wrists. She was
airborne.

[ChrisM^]

Within moments Clark was setting her down in a convenient hollow among some
nearby sand dunes.

"Clark!" she exclaimed, "What if someone had seen us?"

"Don't worry, I checked."  He pulled her into his arms.  "You looked as if
you
could use a break."

She leaned into his protective embrace.  "You're so right ... but I wonder
what gave it away."

Clark grinned at the sarcastic tone he could hear in her voice.  He kissed
the
top of her head, "Oh, I don't know ... your mother and your father all in
the
same room with Lucy and her latest, er, boyfriend.  Just a lucky guess."

She looked up and smiled at him, her sense of humor reasserting itself.

"And I think that lucky guess of yours will be the last bit of luck we have
this whole weekend."

"Well, Lois, it's only for tonight and tomorrow ..." he said a bit
uncertainly.

"And tomorrow night, and the next day," she reminded him.  "We're booked for
the weekend, remember?"

"Hmm."  He looked around him for a moment, and then up at the fading sky,
hoping for inspiration.  "Well, maybe we could slip away tomorrow and do
something.  Just the two of us."
Lois' smile got broader and her eyes gleamed coyly.  "That sounds promising.
I--"  Clark had "that look" on his face.  "Don't tell me.  You're hearing
something.  Clark, you can't leave me here with--"

"Your mother."

"What?"

"Your mother is calling us."

"Great shades of Elvis."

Clark laughed and began to guide Lois out of the protection of the sand
dunes.
"She's saying it's time for supper."

"And the condemned ate a hearty meal.  I know."  Lois grimaced, and Clark
paused.

He pulled her back into his arms and took his time kissing her.

"That ... was ... wonderful," she told him when he'd finished.  "If you
could
just do that at regular intervals, I might survive this weekend after all."

"I promise."

"Okay.  Lead on, then."

*****
[chrispat]

"This looks delicious, Mrs. Lane," Jeff declared with a bright smile. The
rest
of the diners eyed the food warily. Everyone knew Lois had inherited her
cooking talents from her mother.

"Why, thank you, Jeff.  I decided to try a new recipe. Please let me know
what
your think."

The family watched with fascination as Jeff took a bite. It was nice to have
a
guinea pig on hand. The expression on his face was priceless. First his eyes
watered. Then his face turned bright red. He choked, but managed to keep
chewing and eventually swallowed. The family watched to be sure he would
keep
it down. When it seemed that he would, they picked up their forks. At least
it
wasn't lethal.

Jeff grabbed his glass and gulped down a glass of water. "It's wonderful,
Mrs.
Lane, " he gasped. "I never would have thought of combining ginger,  garlic
and cinnamon."

Clark took a bite. "You know, it's not bad."

Lois glared at him. "Just because *you* can eat anything doesn't mean the
rest
of us can."

Ellen bristled. "Isn't that just like you, Lois. You never appreciated all
the
time I spent slaving over a hot stove -- and another thing, you're slouching
again."

Lois threw down her napkin. "Okay, Mother, I did not come here to listen to
the same old stuff. Come on, Clark, you can take me to Burger King."

Sam and Lucy jumped up. " Wait. We're coming too."

Ellen took a bite, and started laughing. "Okay. I admit it. This is really
bad. Let's all go into town and eat. My treat."

The family gawked. "Wow," Lois whispered to Clark. "Is that really my mother
or has someone planted a clone?"

[Eraygun]

Clark grinned. "Never look a gift horse in the mouth," he whispered back.

*****
Besides Burger King, the choices for dinner were somewhat limited in the
nearest town of Bayside.  Ellen initially suggested dinner at "Ralph's
Pagoda-
by-the-Sea" but both Lois and Clark strenuously objected at the thought of
setting foot in the place  So they opted instead for Mario's, a small
Italian
restaurant with an open deck that looked out on the ocean.

Gazing out at the sea and the stars Lois found herself relaxing again. She
could do this, she thought. After all, it was just for three days -- how bad
could it be?

After dinner the group decided to walk along the nearby boardwalk. Lois
purposely lagged behind and let Sam, Ellen, Lucy and Jeff forge ahead
through
the crowd.

"Very clever," Clark said with a smirk.

"Am I being that obvious again?"

"Yeah, but I love you for it," he said, pulling her into a warm embrace.
"And
now that we're separated from the rest of the Lanes, what do you want to
do?"

"Well I was thinking ...."

"Yes?"

[Lansbury]

Just as Lois was about to speak a high pitched voice rose above the sound of
the surf.  "Loiiis!  Clarrrk!  Over here."

Lois' head sank onto her husband's chest.

"It's going to be all right, honey.  Just roll with the waves."  Clark
smiled
at his own pun but Lois just glared at him.

"Yes, Mother. We'll be right there," she called in the direction of Ellen
and
Jeff and Lois and Clark made their way to the rest of the family.

"Jeff just had a wonderful idea. Tell them, Jeff."

Jeff was beaming from ear to ear.  "I know this place just down the
boardwalk
that has karaoke tonight.  Why don't we go there and have some fun?"

Lucy was looking at the cracks in the boardwalk while Lois grabbed Clark's
arm
with the strength of a vise grip.  "Mother, I don't....."  but before she
could get the next word out Ellen was dragging Sam in the direction Jeff had
pointed.

"Hurry, children,  we don't want to miss anything!"

Both Lucy and Lois looked at the men in their lives.  Lois heard Lucy say to
Jeff,  "Jeff if you say one more word to my mother in the next three days,
you, mister will be standing, eating, talking and sleeping by yourself."

Lois looked at Clark.  "I think I'm going to throw up."

[Mackteach]

Clark looked at Lois, a slight frown creasing his brow.  "Really?  You're
not
making that up, honey?"

Lois threw Clark a look of utter frustration.  "No, not really, but that
might
not be such a bad idea.  Between almost not sleeping with you, Mother's
attempt at cooking, and now karaoke ..."  Lois sighed.  "I don't know, Clark
... I think my family is cursed."

Clark chuckled and pulled Lois into his embrace.  "Your family is not
cursed,
honey.  Eccentric, yes, but definitely not cursed."

Lois sighed again, burying herself deeper into Clark's warmth.  "Karaoke
..."
She shuddered dramatically.

"Hey, you have a great voice."

"I suppose ... you haven't heard Mother's, though."

"Lois, it can't be that bad."

"Are you kidding?  *Cats* throw shoes at her!"

"You're exaggerating."

"Am not."

"Are too."  And before Lois could argue the point anymore, Clark closed his
mouth over hers, effectively silencing her.

After the kiss, Lois looked dreamily at him.  "I suppose you're right.  As
long as she sticks to Broadway show tunes, she's bearable."  She grinned up
at
him.  "But you're part of this family too."

Clark's eyes widened.  "Oh no!  Not me."

Continued in part 3
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 19:13:58 EDT
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From:         "Eileen F. Ray" <Eraygun@AOL.COM>
Subject:      NEW FANFIC: SUPERMAN VS. THE IN-LAWS Part 5 of 5
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Superman v. The In-laws
Continued from part 4
___________________________
[ChrisM^]

The rain soon picked up again, driving Lois and Lucy up onto the cottage's
covered deck.  Lois just hoped that Ellen would have had time to do what she
did best.

It soon became perfectly obvious that Ellen had in fact outdone herself.
The
Jeff she now saw was a thoughtful Jeff, a chastised Jeff, a Jeff upon whom
certain cold, hard facts had all too forcefully thrust themselves.  Ellen,
on
the other hand, seemed strangely refreshed and invigorated by their
encounter,
and brightly suggested that they all play a nice game of Scrabble while
waiting for the rain to stop.

Lois had to hide a grin behind her hand, and turn a sudden fit of giggles
into
a fairly convincing cough.  Lucy tried to get Jeff to join in the game, but
he
declined saying he had a headache and wanted to rest for a while. So, when
Clark and Sam returned from their storm-tossed adventure, they found their
womenfolk engaged in a hotly contested Scrabble game.

They both went to change into some dry clothes and then hovered around the
table for a while, trying to tell the women about all that had happened on
board the ship.  Lois was the only one who was even vaguely interested, but
even she was too absorbed in the heat of competition to pay them much
attention.  Clark recognized the signs easily enough, having been on the
receiving end of Lois in full-game mode before.

He leaned over her shoulder, studying the board intently for a moment before
whispering in her ear,  "I still say 'chumpy' isn't a word, Lois."

"It is, too."

Ellen had heard their soft exchange and looked up.  "I knew it!  She said
*you* said it was a word, Clark, but I knew there was--"

"Mother!  That's all been settled, and we can't go back now.  Just play,
okay?"  She turned to Clark and said very patiently, "Why don't you get
yourself something to eat ... dear?"

Recognizing a superior force when he saw one, Clark took himself off to the
tiny kitchen to see what he could find for a late lunch.  By the time he'd
finished eating, the ladies were finishing up their game and tallying the
scores.  Lois was triumphant, having won two out of the three games they'd
played.  Lucy went off in a bit of a huff, hoping to find Jeff and sympathy,
but instead found empty dresser drawers and a space in the closet where
Jeff's
clothes had once hung.

"What in the world--" Sam exclaimed.

Ellen just looked smug.

*****
The afternoon wore on and so did the rain.  Lucy was not a pleasant
companion.

[CrystalW]

Lucy moped, as she was so good at doing, until Lois finally hinted to Clark
that she had had enough and left for the den.  It was really too early to
sleep, but sleep wasn't what she had in mind.  She curled up on the
roll-away
bed, hugging a pillow to her, and watched the rain out the window.

Clark joined her after a few moments, and just gazed at her.  She looked so
sweet that he couldn't resist.  Sitting down next to her he pulled her back
against his chest.  She rested her head against him, and together they
watched
the rain come down.

Lois must have dozed a bit, because the next thing she knew her mother was
knocking on the door, and telling them it was time for dinner.  She turned
around to wake Clark, but he was already wide awake and watching her
intently.

"Is something wrong?" she asked him, looking into his soft brown eyes.

He looked at her for a moment before placing a soft kiss on her lips.  "Not
a
thing."

She was vaguely confused, and quizzed him some more.  "So, you just like
looking at me?"

"Yes, I do."  he kissed her once more, and gently caressed her cheek with
the
palm of his hand.  For a moment longer he just gazed at her, then he told
her,
"This is exactly how I wanted to spend my weekend."

Lois smiled back at him and was about to give him an even more enthusiastic
kiss when her father knocked on the door.  She sighed, and changed the kiss
to
a small peck before rising from the bed.  Clark joined her and opened the
door
for her, letting her leave the den first.

They had hamburgers for dinner, finally giving in to the take-out window of
the local Burger King, and then sat around the table finishing their colas
while setting up the Monopoly game.

Clark really wasn't in the mood for a marathon game night, but he figured
that
he would lose quickly enough to get to bed early.  Lois would, of course,
fight tooth and nail to win, and most likely would be playing come morning.
Lucy disappeared into town in search of Jeff, and the others managed to
enjoy
themselves for the first couple of hours.

No one was more surprised than Clark when Lois suggested putting off the end
of the game.  She was considerably ahead, as usual, and it wasn't like her
to
release her death grip once she had decided to play a game.  The rest of
them
gratefully agreed, and they left the game as it was on the table to get
ready
for bed.

Once they had brushed their teeth and changed into night clothes, Lois and
Clark resumed their cuddling position on the bed.

[Mackteach]

Lois moved a little closer to Clark, grateful as always for his natural
warmth
and the security of his arms.  Yawning, she asked, "Well, you've survived so
far.  Still glad you married me?"

Clark nuzzled at her neck, "Lois, I will *always* be glad that I married
you."

Lois smiled.  "That's sweet, but you know what I mean."

Clark chuckled.  "Yeah, I know.  Let's just say that I have a better
appreciation for the person that you are, honey."

Lois turned in his arms and looked into his eyes.  "I'm the product of my
upbringing, Clark.  Just like you are."  She cupped the side of his face,
her
fingernails lightly raking along his throat.  "I wouldn't want to go through
all of it again, but at the same time I wouldn't change any of it."

Clark smiled softly.  "You are a wise and wonderful woman, Lois."

Lois returned his smile with one of her own.  "I know.  Now, kiss me and
show
me how much you love me."

As the moonlight streamed through the window, Clark smiled once again before
placing his lips over his wife's.

[zoomway]

The rest of what Lois had feared would be 'the lost weekend' finished
without
incident. Lois of course won the Monopoly game, and Sam kept saying
"kaching!"
in imitation of a cash register each time Lois bankrupted another player.

Ellen was out of the running early and so consoled Lucy about the loss of
Jeff, but was surprised Lucy wasn't quite as devastated as anticipated.  She
confessed she had been tired of pretending to like a vegetarian diet just
out
of deference to Jeff, whom she had found in Bayside scarfing down a Whopper
with cheese the night before.  And to think, she said indignantly, he had
lectured the family on the perils of red meat!

A rather beaten up, hand-painted taxi called "The Busy Bee" came to pick
Lucy
up first.  She'd take it into town and then catch a bus to the airport.

Lois hugged her. "You sure you're okay, Luce? You could come stay with me
and
Clark a while."

Lucy sighed into the hug. "I'm okay," she said, and lowered her voice. "One
day I'll have enough federal disasters to qualify for my own version of
Clark
Kent."

Lois pulled back from the hug and smiled. "You will."

Lucy then gave Clark a brief hug. "Keep her out of trouble."

"It's my mission in life," he laughed. "Have a safe trip."

As Lois and Clark watched the cab pull away,  Sam and Ellen stepped out onto
the porch.

Ellen sighed loudly. "I guess you two will be leaving now."

"I'm afraid so," Clark said. "We've got a long drive."

Ellen nodded and then hugged Lois, clutching her tightly. "Bye, baby, I love
you."

"I love you too, Mother," she said softly.

Ellen then hugged Clark. "Don't let her bully you too much."

"Actually I kind of like it," he laughed.

Then without warning and before Sam could react, Clark embraced Lois' father
-
the man who saved his life, but could never be thanked for that -  the man
who'd 'always wanted sons'. "Goodbye, Dad," Clark said.  Taking Lois' hand,
he
headed for the jeep.

Sam cleared his throat and sniffed. "Nice boy, that Clark Kent," he managed
to
say.

"Come on," Ellen said, and escorted Sam back into the beach house.

Clark closed the door for Lois and hopped into the driver's seat.  Lois
leaned
over and kissed him. "Thanks for that, Clark. For Daddy."

Clark buckled his seat belt. "Well, I said that when we were married, they'd
be my family too, and I meant it," he said, and then after listening a
moment,
laughed as he turned the ignition key.

"What?" Lois asked. "What are you laughing at."

"I don't think you want to know," Clark said, a wicked gleam in his eye.

"Clark, that bullying you're so fond of can start right now, if you like."

"Okay," Clark said, mock resignation in his voice. "It's just that there's
this rhythmic squeaking sound coming from the den, and--"

"Shut up and drive."

"Yes, ma'am," he laughed, and the jeep pulled away rapidly.

THE END
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 19:13:55 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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Subject:      NEW FANFIC: SUPERMAN VS. THE IN-LAWS Part 4 of 5
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Superman v. The In-laws
Continued from Part 3
__________________________

[CrystalW]

She accepted Clark's kiss somewhat absently, and then stood to pull on her
robe.  Once she was presentable, she left the den in search of the bathroom.
She found it; unfortunately it was not unoccupied.  She encountered a
muscle-
bound blond who wasn't wearing a stitch of clothing.  She was still too
groggy
to be shocked, so she merely stepped past him as he left the bathroom and
closed the door once she was inside, but she did have the passing thought
that
this man's buns could never compete with her husband's

Once she had tended to her morning business and brushed her teeth, she left
the bathroom.  She considered going back to the den to dress, but instead
followed the voices that were coming from the living room.  She held the top
of her robe together as she followed her husband's laugh into the room.
What
she saw there did shock her, and she exclaimed, "Perry?!?"

[Eraygun]

"Hi there, darlin'," Perry said with a grin.  "Surprised to see me?"

"Stunned is more like it," Lois said as she moved to sit next to Clark on
the
couch.

"Now don't worry, Lois, honey.  I'm not here to upset your vacation, at
least
not completely. But I do need to borrow Clark here for a while."

"What?!"

"Lois, this storm is turning into a real nor'easter.  There are high surf
warnings up and down the coast."

"I know that, Chief ... but --"

"Don't worry, I don't want Clark to do simple weather coverage. This is
something much more important.  These weather conditions are just perfect
for
the Navy to finish testing Shockwave II.  Clark did the first story on that
and I  got a call this morning inviting the two of us out to the test ship
this morning.  There's a chopper waiting for us."

[Lansbury]

Just has Perry dropped the news of the helicopter onto Lois, he looked
around
as he heard Sam, Ellen, Lucy and Jeff enter the room.

"Perry, what brings you here?"  Ellen walked over to Perry and place her
hand
into his outstretched one.

"I'm here to kidnap your son-in-law for the afternoon.  I have a helicopter
waiting to take us out to a ship to witness a military test..."

As he was about to explain further, Ellen raised her other hand.  "Now, wait
a
minute.  This is a family weekend and it's going to stay that way."

"Ellen, don't stand in the way of Clark doing his job.  It sounds exciting
to
me.  I wish I could join them."

Ellen looked at her ex-husband, stunned.  "Well, if you find being on a ship
in a hurricane watching a bomb blow up better than being here with your
family
then GO!"

Sam looked at Perry.  "Got room for one more?"

"Sure, if that's really what you want to do, Sam."

"Let me get my rain slicker,"  Sam said.

Ellen stood beside Lois as both Clark and Sam walked towards the helicopter.
Sam stopped and turned as he was about to climb up into the chopper.
"Ellen,
have a good time with the girls."

Jeff came up behind the pair and said in a cheerful voice,  "Now how lucky
can
one man get but to have the company of the three most beautiful women in the
world all to himself for the whole afternoon."

Without missing a beat mother and daughter said in unison, "Stick it in your
*ear*, Jeff,"  and turned to walk back towards the beach house.

[Mackteach]

As Jeff watched the pair walk away, he ran his hand through his hair, a
puzzled look on his face.  "What?" he shouted after them.  "What did I do?"
He looked at Lucy who had come up to stand next to him.  "What did I do?"

Lucy smiled a bit wistfully and took his hand.  "Let me explain about the
Lane
women, sweetie ..."  Jeff half-listened to Lucy as they walked down to the
beach, occasionally looking back at the beach house.

As Lois poured herself a cup of coffee, she looked thoughtfully at Ellen
sitting at the table, reading the local weekly newsletter.  "Mother?"

"Hmmm?"

"What do you think of Jeff?"

Ellen answered as she continued to skim the sales ads.  "He's a tad too
smarmy
for me, but certainly better than anyone else that Lucy has dated."

Lois nearly choked on her coffee.  "Smarmy?!?!?"

Ellen put down the newsletter and looked at her eldest daughter.  "Smarmy.
Slick.  Pretentious.  Like that fellow on that TV show.  I keep waiting for
him to compliment me on my dress."

"You don't wear dresses.  You wear pantsuits."

"He still would have complimented me."  When Lois continued to stare in
amazement at her, Ellen sighed.  "Lois, don't forget, I was married to your
father.  Jeff doesn't have anything on Sam in the smarmy department."

"Daddy is *not* smarmy!!!"

Ellen snorted.  "Ask Mrs. Belcanto about that."

"Mother!"

"Lois!"  Ellen sighed again.  "You told me last night that I had a lot to do
with creating the Lois that Clark fell in love with.  I'm not as ditzy as
everyone seems to think I am."

Lois walked over to the table and sat next to Ellen.  She placed her hand
over
her mother's, the gesture surprising both of them.  "I never thought you
were
ditzy, Mom.  Just ..." Lois' voice trailed off as she tried to find the
correct words.

"Crazy?  Eccentric?  Cursed?"  Ellen smiled sadly, knowing that those were
some of the words she had heard used to describe her.

Lois sighed.  "No, Mother.  None of those.  You were just ... you."  When
Ellen didn't say anything to that, Lois quickly added, "Not that there's
anything wrong with that."

Ellen patted Lois' hand.  "I know what you're trying to say, Lois.  And I
appreciate it."

"Good."  Lois smiled crookedly.  "You knew about Mrs. Belcanto?"

Ellen chuckled.  "Even before Mrs. Belcanto did.  Your father was such a
charmer."  She winked at Lois.  "Still is.  When I let him."

"Mother!"

"Lois, do you really think you and Clark are the only ones in the whole
world
who have sex?"

Lois didn't even want to consider the ramifications of what Ellen had just
said.  The thought of her mother and her father ... she suppressed a
shudder.
"Well, I'd better get dressed."  She rose and headed toward the den.

"Lois?"

"Yes, Mother?"

Ellen's smile took on a mischievous look.  "How'd you like to put Jeff in
his
place?  And have a little fun?"

Lois'  smiled widened.  "Go on ..."

[zoomway]

"Your sister was never quite as ... strong and ... selective as you, Lois,
and
I worry--"

"Mom, hold it.  I almost married Lex Luthor."

Ellen nodded. "True, but he at least would have provide