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Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:05:16 -0400
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From:         "Atcliffe, Phillip" <Phillip.Atcliffe@UWE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Story Idea: Martha and Jonathan as new parents
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On Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:54:53 -0400 Sandra McDermin
<SMcDermi@NAS.EDU> wrote:

[Some stuff snipped]

> How did the Kents, who had never had children, suddenly
adjust to being instant parents. Remember they had no
warnings; made no financial or other preparations. Nada! <

Actually, they probably weren't as unprepared as all that.
They knew that they couldn't have children, which implies
that they'd been trying -- and that willingness to have
kids is at least half of the "battle". I can imagine their
situation as being not unlike that of Lois and Clark in the
baby arc during the 4th season, only further along: L&C
(well, Lois) weren't necessarily ready to have kids right
then and there, but they did want to know if it was
possible; I see the Kents as, since they probably didn't
expect to have problems that way, actively trying to have a
child.

Since I can't remember all the details of TF, I don't know
if J&M trying to adopt and being turned down repeatedly
(Strewth! The American adoption system must be totally
insane if the Kents -- either generation -- were turned
down!) was part of the series or just (just? <g>) in
fanfic, but that, too, could have been part of the process
of getting them ready for the little "miracle" that was
about to drop into their lives.

As for dealing with a baby... well, heck, they're
_farmers!_ I had an argument with a bloke at pre-natal
classes on this, but I still maintain that looking after
animals, pets or livestock, is good preparation for living
with a baby. There wasn't much difference, to my mind
(which was, I admit, rather clouded from lack of sleep),
between looking after a puppy with distemper at 3 a.m. and
doing what we called the "early shift" with either of my
sons as a baby. Jonathan and Martha are used to dealing
with animals; they could handle a baby (doing both at once,
however, could be stressful...)

Phil, remembering the early shift with some fondness --
_and_ the good friend that puppy grew to be...
------------------------------------------------------------
"I think... I think I am!     |       I think _I_ am:
 Therefore I am... I think?"  |        Phil Atcliffe
   -- The Moody Blues         | (Phillip.Atcliffe@uwe.ac.uk)
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Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 06:47:48 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Story Idea: Martha and Jonathan as new parents
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In a message dated 98-07-07 22:57:57 EDT, kubitc@KENYON.EDU writes:

<<  (These
 Martha stories are requiring a TON of research.) >>

Well, I guess you must be a youngster not to remember those years
first-hand.
<g>

--Laurie (who doesnt' really remember much of anything going on in the world
during her childhood anyway)
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Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:29:29 EDT
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From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Story Idea: Martha and Jonathan as new parents
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In a message dated 98-07-08 05:17:38 EDT, you write:

<< Actually, they probably weren't as unprepared as all that.
 They knew that they couldn't have children, which implies
 that they'd been trying -- and that willingness to have
 kids is at least half of the "battle". I can imagine their
 situation as being not unlike that of Lois and Clark in the
 baby arc during the 4th season, only further along: L&C
 (well, Lois) weren't necessarily ready to have kids right
 then and there, but they did want to know if it was
 possible; I see the Kents as, since they probably didn't
 expect to have problems that way, actively trying to have a
 child. >>

I agree with this.  Jon and Martha probably were like most couples who try
to
have children and are prepared to become parents, but it is at this point
where they find despite their efforts, no pregnancy, that they seek out a
medical reason for why they haven't been successful.  Martha might have even
gone through a nine month pregnancy and perhaps the baby was still born.  If
she had gone through a full term or nearly full, she and Jonathan may even
have purchased a lot of baby clothes, diapers, baby bed, maybe even fixed up
a
nursery.  What if Jonathan did a four year hitch in the Army like most guys
of
his generation?  Say he was stationed in Germany between '59 and '62 and
Martha was with him. In Germany and the UK of that era, Thalidomide was
prescribed as a tranquilizer and for morning sickness, but doctors didn't
know
the drug caused extreme birth defects, at least to the fetuses that lived
long
enough to be born.  Okay, maybe that scenario is a bit too tragic, but
Martha
could have come close to bringing a pregnancy to term, something went wrong,
and the end result might have rendered her sterile, or at least created a
stituation where a full term pregnancy was too dangerous or flatout
impossible.

Whatever happened, it was upsetting, and still painful by the time Lois and
Clark visited in Tempus Fugitive.  The instant Lois mentions a baby, Martha
looks at Jonathan, he puts a comforting hand over hers and gently says "Now
Martha..." as if it's something they've talked and talked about and he knows
where this may head and he certainly knows how much it hurts.  The real
tough
part of writing how Martha and Jonathan fared as parents will be addressing
how they *explained* a baby<g>  In the comics, Martha and Jonathan were
trying
to have a baby, and so when a freak blizzard struck isolating the farm folk
from the town folk until Spring, that's when Clark's spaceship landed, and
so
they merely said Clark was born during that blizzard.  Problem solved ;)  A
freak blizzard in  May would be a bit more difficult, but maybe a flood ..
hee
hee ;) In the movies, I think the baby was going to be explained as being
from
Martha's cousin, but sooner or later a school would want records.

>>>Since I can't remember all the details of TF, I don't know
if J&M trying to adopt and being turned down repeatedly
(Strewth! The American adoption system must be totally
insane if the Kents -- either generation -- were turned
down!) was part of the series or just (just? <g>) in
fanfic, but that, too, could have been part of the process
of getting them ready for the little "miracle" that was
about to drop into their lives.<<<<

I imagine Martha and Jonathan would be turned down for adoption if the
agency
felt that farming was too "iffy" a livelihood (living harvest to harvest)
and/or that a farm would be too remote from help in case of serious illness
or
emergencies.  I know those are dumb reasons to deny a child to great people
like the Kents, but this is America, it's all weird ;)  Even adopting an
animal from a shelter can be expensive and they have rules like a "fenced
yard" for dogs, and that's swell if you don't live out in the country like I
do, and a "yard" might be ten arcres of land<g>

>>>As for dealing with a baby... well, heck, they're
_farmers!_ I had an argument with a bloke at pre-natal
classes on this, but I still maintain that looking after
animals, pets or livestock, is good preparation for living
with a baby<<<

I agree, anyone who has even taken care of a sick pet, and had to give it
extra care knows what it's like to love and care for something fairly
helpless
and utterly dependant on you.  Just as Clark was *born* to be Superman, I
think the Kents were *born* to be great parents ;)

Zoomway@aol.com
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Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:21:02 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Sandra McDermin <SMcDermi@NAS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Story Idea: Martha and Jonathan as new parents
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>>[Some stuff snipped]<<

Good stuff.  Every word's a gem ; )

> How did the Kents, who had never had children, suddenly adjust to being
instant parents. Remember they had no warnings; made no financial or other
preparations. Nada! <

>>>Actually, they probably weren't as unprepared as all that. They knew
that they couldn't have children, which implies that they'd been trying --
and that willingness to have kids is at least half of the "battle". I can
imagine their situation as being not unlike that of Lois and Clark in the
baby arc during the 4th season, only further along: L&C (well, Lois)
weren't necessarily ready to have kids right  then and there, but they did
want to know if it was possible; I see the Kents as, since they probably
didn't expect to have problems that way, actively trying to have a
child.<<<

I agree that they had been trying at some point -- no one would dispute
that.  But, they weren't exactly newlyweds when Clark arrived.  I had
gotten the impression that their attempts at having children was something
in the past.  They investigated their lack of success and found they
couldn't have children.  Granted, under these circumstances they might have
had a few items -- a cradle, a highchair.  But, honestly, do you think they
had a stack of diapers all ready, bottles, baby food.  You don't exactly
buy these things and put them in a hope chest.  Besides that, I could see
Martha (perhaps feeling emotional pain over having said items in the house)
giving them to some needy young mother.  That's pretty Martha-like, I
think.

>>As for dealing with a baby... well, heck, they're _farmers!_ I had an
argument with a bloke at pre-natal classes on this, but I still maintain
that looking after animals, pets or livestock, is good preparation for
living with a baby. There wasn't much difference, to my mind (which was, I
admit, rather clouded from lack of sleep), between looking after a puppy
with distemper at 3 a.m. and
doing what we called the "early shift" with either of my sons as a baby.
Jonathan and Martha are used to dealing with animals; they could handle a
baby (doing both at once, however, could be stressful...)<<

Well, Phil, as much as I'd like to take your word for this -- I can't.
Even though you're a dad and I am no one's parent, I have taken care of
puppies and kitties.  And, I know the difference between baby humans and
baby animals.  Baby humans need *a tad more tending.*  (I can't speak for
farm animals.)  I would certainly go to work and leave a baby animal home
alone.  I wouldn't do the same with a human baby -- I hope.  Furthermore,
Martha and Jonathan are human beings with emotions, anxieties, and fears.
No matter how many animals they've taken care of, I'm sure they would be a
bit more on edge with a brand new (to them) "human" baby.  I'm sorry.  I
have two cats that I've raised from kitten-hood and I love them dearly, but
that doesn't mean I know diddley-squat about being a mother.  That's
somethin' you learn by doin' and Martha would have had to learn just like
the rest of us.

In any event, the point of my original post was not to debate this issue.
If you don't think any of the points I brought up would be issues then ...
fine.  I still think a nice story could be written from this premise -- so
I threw it out there.  In any case, stories are very individual and have an
internal logic created by the authors.  Even if you don't buy my premise,
that doesn't mean someone else couldn't write a good story based upon it
nor that you wouldn't enjoy reading it.  Stories, after all, should have
"conflict" and/or "issues" and IMO these are interesting "issues".

Sandy -- thrilled that she doesn't have to find a decent school in the
      District for her cats.
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Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:38:11 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Debby Stark <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: "The Chicken and Egg Debate"
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At 11:49 PM 7/5/98 -0400, Zoomway  wrote:

>In a message dated 98-07-05 21:20:37 EDT, you write:
>
><< She was also being written by some guys who had orders to take the show
in
> a more action/Superman oriented direction. The 2nd half of season 2, IMO,
> was her strongest showing >>

>If you're saying the 2nd season writers wrote Lois better than 1rst
>season...

I have said in the past that Lois had matured nicely by the end of the 2nd
season. I have also said that the 2nd season was very bad for the character
of Clark Kent, that it was not his year.

>...DJL and her brother Dan
>wrote the 1rst season finale, and so it's not like we're talking "one-shot"
>writers here who didn't know the characters.

Why do you suppose they wrote them that way? Was it what they wanted to
write or did abc have any influence over the matter? Was the final product
what DJL&DL wanted to see on the screen? If this is how they wanted to
write the show, why do you suppose that abc/wb get rid of them anyhow? In
those two episodes, Lois was dumbed down and subdued, Clark was largely
abcent, Lex was killed off, romance between L&C faltered and almost
died--isn't this what abc wanted?

Unless what we saw on the screen wasn't what DJL & DL originally wrote. Who
knows? It doesn't make any sense to me. I wish I knew the story behind all
that.

>>>>>but I still like how, at least until BatP and
>HoL, she managed to bounce back from every insult and become a fuller, more
>interesting person in the process, despite sometimes mediocre script
>writing.<<<
>
>I agree, since the episodes weren't connected to each other 1rst season, it
>was easy for Lois to 'bounce back' as if nothing ever happened, because
well,
>it was almost as if nothing ever did<g>

I didn't say "as if nothing ever happened." You did.

I said: "she managed to bounce back from every insult and become a fuller,
more interesting person in the process." If you don't think so, fine with
me.

Also, I saw most of season one's episodes as fairly well connected with
each other, with reasonable and agreeble continuity.

>>>>
>Let's say the writers were ordered to write something to move the series in
>the new direction and no one paid any heed to what it did to Lois's
>character. <<<<
>
>I'd hate to think DJL of all people would have "paid no heed to what it
did to
>Lois's character"

I'd hate to think that as well, but I have no clues about what pressures
she was under, if any (note my questions above), when she wrote whatever
she and DL wrote of BatP and HoL. I know she did fine work before that, as
a writer but more so in running the show, so why suddenly the change?

>[snip] The issue for me is *why*? Why did Lois almost marry Lex?  [snip]

Okay, why do *you* think she did?

[snip a *gasp!* agreement on something]

>>>>I thought it was cute and I could relate immediately. <<<

>Believe me, I know most people thought the line was "cute" or funny, but
I'd
>hate to think Lois would be that stupid,

I sure don't think she was stupid.

>or maybe she thought that was the
>natural coloration of Kryptonian males, and when they molt, they have that
>hot, tight, black suit ;)

Since you hate to think she was stupid, why then *do* you think she said
the line?

I think she said it *not* because she thought it was impossible for the
suit to come off, but because she more than anyone else knew that Superman
was busy, maybe 24 hours a day, and invulnerable to boot. To think that he
might actually stop to do something so mundane as enjoying a shower was
assounding to her. Thus, "the suit comes off" indicates to me that she
found herself privy to something perhaps no one else in the world knew
about the hero: that there was someone real under the suit, someone who
actually did normal things like take showers. Her next question might have
been, "Does he sing in the shower?"

So the line wasn't only cute, it was sweet and a further indication to me
that she was uncovering clues to a multidimensional character. And, of
course, that she cared enough to want to do so, particularly combined with
her efforts throughout that episode.

>>>Typical Lois: a true hera without superpowers.<<<

>Uh huh, and as thick as a brick<g>

Oh, that's cute. I don't know if that comment is a nasty jab at Lois or at
me.

Let's assume it's at Lois.  Zoomway, you have mentioned quite a few times
in this forum how during year one and the summer following, you had to
defend Lois against people (on the newsgroup and elsewhere) who despised
her for a variety of reasons.

If someone back then had called her "thick as a brick"

         --for it not occurring to her that the suit might come off or
     for her having agreed to marry the 2nd richest man in the
     world after Superman (whose life she had saved several times,
     and whose secrets she kept) wouldn't even take her into his
     confidence (or even warn, "Don't marry Lex, Lois, I don't
     trust him"), --

how would you have responded back then? How did you defend that "thick as a
brick" woman?

I truly wish to know this, because right now it looks to me that if you
think that Lois was "as thick as a brick", then your defense of her back
then must have been... interesting to say the least.

If your cute remark was a veiled flame at me, well, that's your perogative.

But for now, I'll try to stop defending Lois Lane in any of her
incarnations (except those I write), it's just not worth my limited time
and I'm not going to change my complex opinion of her anyhow. I'll leave
the defense of her as displayed on the show up to those who have a long
history of, well, claiming they had a habit of rushing to her defense from
the beginning. :\

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
who is thinking seriously of
taking a vacation from all this...
(not withstanding that work is picking up
again and there are too few of us for
me to think of taking a *real*
vacation this year...)
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Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 04:35:46 EDT
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From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      last time  (was Re: "The Chicken and Egg Debate"
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First, I want to promise this is my last post on this thread.  I hadn't
intended to post on it again because some see the thread as 'off topic',
but
I'm responding this time because apparently a *big* misunderstanding has
taken
place, and so I'd better address that. So, onward...

I wrote:

>...DJL and her brother Dan
>wrote the 1rst season finale, and so it's not like we're talking "one-shot"
>writers here who didn't know the characters.<<<

Deb responded:

>>Why do you suppose they wrote them that way?<<<<

Well, that was actually part of the response from your previous post
regarding
the 1rst season finale where Lois was written so poorly, you said that maybe
'no one paid any heed to what it did to Lois's character' and I responded
"I'd
hate to think that DJL of all people would have 'paid no heed..."   I truly
feel that way.  DJL wasn't a one-shot writer, nor was her brother Dan.

>>>Was it what they wanted to
write or did abc have any influence over the matter? Was the final product
what DJL&DL wanted to see on the screen? If this is how they wanted to
write the show, why do you suppose that abc/wb get rid of them anyhow? In
those two episodes, Lois was dumbed down and subdued, Clark was largely
abcent, Lex was killed off, romance between L&C faltered and almost
died--isn't this what abc wanted?<<<

But see, when the same excuse was applied to ERL/Bucker with the so-called
"wedding argh", that didn't fly with you, why should this "ABC made me do
it"
justification fly with me in this case?<g>  I'd say in *both* cases the
writers had choices even with ABC breathing down their necks and issuing
mandates and that in *both* cases the respective writers/producers chose
poorly.

>>>I didn't say "as if nothing ever happened." You did. I said: "she managed
to bounce back from every insult and become a fuller, more interesting
person
in the process." If you don't think so, fine with me.<<<<

Sorry, I should have been more clear.  The idea that someone "bounces back"
means that someone was down in order *to* bounce back, but since the series
did modular (stand-alone) epiosdes in 1rst season, each new episode was
treated like nothing from the preceding episode had impacted on the
characters.  It was also what was wrong (among many other things) with the
wedding arc.  The characters were back acting almost like it was a 1rst
season
event, and that almost having the greatest time of their lives ruined was no
big deal.  Lois and Clark both "bounced back" nicely because it wasn't
treated
like something that had them down to begin with.

>>>I'd hate to think that as well, but I have no clues about what pressures
she was under, if any (note my questions above), when she wrote whatever
she and DL wrote of BatP and HoL. I know she did fine work before that, as
a writer but more so in running the show, so why suddenly the change?<<<

Again the same justificiation could be applied to ERL/BB "I don't know what
kind of pressure [they] were under.."  but beyond that, I think DJL's work
had
it's good and its so-so bits like most writers.

I said:

>>>[snip] The issue for me is *why*? Why did Lois almost marry Lex?
[snip]<<<

you replied:

>>>Okay, why do *you* think she did?<<

That was *my* question<g> It still is.

I said:

>>or maybe she thought that was the
>natural coloration of Kryptonian males, and when they molt, they have that
>hot, tight, black suit ;)<<<

you replied:

>>>Since you hate to think she was stupid, why then *do* you think she said
the line?<<<

I think like many lines and sight gags, it was there for the humor of it.
To
me it had no deeper meaning than say Clark sneezing when he had no real
reason
to sneeze in ASU other than blowing a taxicab into a fire hydrant.  It was
done because it was *funny*  I still laugh every time I see that sneeze<g>

>>>think she said it *not* because she thought it was impossible for the
suit to come off, but because she more than anyone else knew that Superman
was busy, maybe 24 hours a day, and invulnerable to boot. To think that he
might actually stop to do something so mundane as enjoying a shower was
assounding to her. <<<<<

I'd agree if it weren't so clearly lust motivated on Lois's part<g>  Not
that
I blame her! Lois even asked if Clark saw him  and Clark said "I didn't
look"
then Lois gets a grip on herself and says  "No, of course not ... I wouldn't
either" (hee hee ;)  It did make Lois seem a bit dense, but sometimes lust
can
do that ("It's 9, I thought you'd be naked" ;) same deal, a gag line, or "I
had a little muscle..mishap!"  They are there throughout the series and they
serve their main purpose, they make us laugh ;)

you worte:

>>>Typical Lois: a true hera without superpowers.<<<

and I responded:

>>>>Uh huh, and as thick as a brick<g><<<<

Then the part that really stunned me:

>>>Oh, that's cute. I don't know if that comment is a nasty jab at Lois or
at
me.<<<

Deb, I would *never* turn any difference of opinion into a personal attack.
It's clear that you were talking about Lois and I responded about Lois *not*
you.  You said "typical Lois" where in my reply to that would you get the
impression I was speaking of you and not Lois?  To clear this up just in
case,
it was most definitely not directed at you. To steal a line from Clark
"That's
*not* how I work."  I've had to sign on the list and *stop* people from
making
personal attacks, so I would be about the least likely person to employ
'flaming'.  It's true we disagree, heck I disagree with a lot of people, but
I
would never flame them.  I apologize if you think there was anything in that
reply that was aimed at you.  Later in the same post I said I thought Shaggy
and Scooby-Doo were both kind of cute, but also "thick as bricks", and that
wasn't aimed at anyone else either.

>>>Let's assume it's at Lois.  Zoomway, you have mentioned quite a few times
in this forum how during year one and the summer following, you had to
defend Lois against people (on the newsgroup and elsewhere) who despised
her for a variety of reasons.<<<

Yes, it was most definitely aimed at Lois, and yes, I had to defend Lois a
lot
first season.

>>>how would you have responded back then? How did you defend that "thick as
a
brick" woman?<<

>I truly wish to know this, because right now it looks to me that if you
>think that Lois was "as thick as a brick", then your defense of her back
>then must have been... interesting to say the least.<<<<

As the show was actually airing back 1rst season, the things Lois was
attacked
for had to do with things that later resolved themselves over the course of
the series, and so no longer upset fans, but a lot of fans had posts like
this
at the time back in 94 (actual snips from 1rst season LOISCLA posts):

"Will someone _please_ tell me what Clark sees in this woman?  Is this the
woman he really wants to take home to his mother?"

My reply:

"Clark sees a woman of passion, and maybe one day he hopes that passion will
be redirected towards him, but at least for Clark, it's worth waiting for.
He
also sees a side to Lois that others don't.  She might hide or decry
positive
emotions in public, but he's seen her softer moments, like her feelings for
her dad, believing in both Superman and Clark when no one else believed in
them (even Clark doubting himself) caring for Amy Valdez, believing in
Eugene
Latterman's innocence, etc. All of this with her heart instead of her 'mad
dog
Lane' instincts...."
*******

"I feel so sorry for Clark, he's like a great chef preparing a gourmet meal
for Lois, but she turns her nose up at it every time."

My response:

"Did Clark ever *ask* what Lois wanted for dinner?<G> Escargot is considered
'gourmet' too, but I sure wouldn't order it!  That's the point. Right now,
Superman seems more 'appetizing' than Clark to Lois, but I don't doubt for a
minute that once Clark hits on the right recipe, he and Lois will start
cooking...."
******

"I don't know if I can keep watching this show any more!!! It was bad enough
that Lois coldly turned down Clark's sweet confession of love, but then to
twist the knife and tell Clark as Superman that she'd love him as a normal
man, it just irked me!!  I was hoping he would fly out that window and never
come back!.."

My response:

Why is Lois being blamed for not loving Clark the way *he* wants to be
loved?
That's what happened, isn't it?  Why in the world did Clark think Lois would
accept his 'sweet confession of love' when he above *anyone* else knew
Lois's
heart belonged to Superman?  What sense did that make?  Lois warned Clark
from
the beginning, "Don't fall for me farm boy..."  Clark ignored said warning
and
pursued her anyway. That being the case, every Lois Lane  heel mark on his
heart *he* put there by pursuing someone who warned him not to. I don't
fault
Clark for pursuing Lois, but I *do* fault him for treating her so nasty when
he should have known who she would turn to.  He broke her heart as Superman
because he knew it was the deepest wound he could inflict on her. And what's
with that mean-spirited comment about her not putting on a robe unless it's
lined with lead? He made it sound like he x-rays her when it suits him for
some cheap thrill.  You know, on this series it's almost as impossible to
love
Lois as it is to hate Clark, but this episode brought me perilously close to
hating him."
********

Anyway, *those* were the pressing issues 1rst season with fans regarding
Lois
and how I defended her. What Lois was criticized for back then was for not
loving Clark as 'Clark' instead of as Superman. Even her general attitude
was
attacked back then. Believe me, when you create a character that causes one
fan to comment "I actually enjoyed seeing the villain choking Lois" [Fly
Hard]
some very bad signals were being sent out.  These rarely, if ever, are the
issues now with everyone knowing Lois finally did fall for Clark, but back
then, geez, it was a bloodbath<g>  However, my "thick as a brick" comment
only
referred to *one* line out of all of first season, not to Lois herself
throughout the season and not even to Lois throughout the episode (MOSB) the
line was from!  I happen to think that Lois was truly great in that episode.
She believed in Superman and Clark and wasn't going to give up and she
didn't.
It was also a pivotal episode in that Lois reached a point where she didn't
know who she'd miss more, Clark, or Superman.  She also knew that Superman
had
to do what he was born to do, even if that meant breaking a court order and
best of all Clark knew she knew that ;)  On top of that, it was written by a
"one-shot" writer who wrote a Lois who was confident, but not harsh, a Lois
who was caring, but not weak, and a Lois who solved the case.  I couldn't
ask
for much more than that ;)

>>>If your cute remark was a veiled flame at me, well, that's your
perogative.<<

It most definitely was not aimed at you in any way.

>>>But for now, I'll try to stop defending Lois Lane in any of her
incarnations (except those I write), it's just not worth my limited time
and I'm not going to change my complex opinion of her anyhow.<<<

No one wants you to change your opinion, least of all me, but an exchange of
opinions, no matter how they differ is part of the fun (usually) of an
e-mail
discussion list.  I won't likely change my opinion either, nor will I stop
defending it, because it is important to me.

>>>I'll leave
the defense of her as displayed on the show up to those who have a long
history of, well, claiming they had a habit of rushing to her defense from
the beginning. :\<<<

To me, there's a great difference between blindly defending everything
someone
does, and defending only those points you feel are worth defending.  I never
blindly defended Lois or justified every single thing she did back in 1rst
season where she seemed to be under constant attack.  I thought she deserved
the 'Godzilla' comeupance in Neverending Battle, more importantly *she* knew
she deserved it too.  I don't 'claim' I defended Lois, I *did* defend her,
but
*only* when I thought the attack on her was unjustififed.  I remember one
thread on the list 1rst season "If you could be Clark or Superman, who would
you rather be"  along about the time that thread was running, yet another
attack against Lois was launched, I wrote "Other people get to *choose* if
they want to be Clark or Superman, but I have no choice. Once again I put on
my cape and fly out the window to defend Lois..." and I was only halfway
joking<g>

>>>who is thinking seriously of
taking a vacation from all this...
(not withstanding that work is picking up
again and there are too few of us for
me to think of taking a *real*
vacation this year...)<<<

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for myself, and hope
you're
not serious about taking a vacation from the list.  I promise if you stay
that
I won't take on any of your posts.  I'll let them be.  I can tell when
someone
is angry or hurt and I fear I caused you to feel both, and for that I am
truly
sorry.

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:28:56 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Carmille Caluag <Ellimrac@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Superboy Question
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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       A couple of months ago I heard about a Superboy Fanfic series and I
was
wondering whatever became of it.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 08:46:34 PDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "K.C. Boyd" <miracles4me@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The chicken and the egg
Content-Type: text/plain

I think all of you just complicated a simple question.  "Was it wrong
for Lois to fall in love with Superman while at the same time ignoring
Clark."  First of all the question itself is phrased poorly.  Lois
didn't know Clark was Superman, to her they were different people.  Let
say, for example, Clark doesn't have superpowers.  Lois meets Clark and
another guy we'll call Bob.  Is it ok for Lois to fall in love with Bob
and not Clark? HECK YES!  She can fall in love with whoever she wants.
True, Clark and Superman are the same person, but Lois doesn't know
that.  To her they are completely different people with different
personalities.  Add to that to Superman's tendency to fly in her window
and throw compliments at her, Clark Kent doesn't stand a chance.

Your judging Lois's actions on information she doesn't have.  If you
asking weather it is ok for her to love one person while ignoring
another. Yes, it is.  If your asking weather it is Ok for her to ignore
Clark.  Yes to that to.  If your asking weather it is Ok for her to love
Superman.  That depends on weather she loves him for his powers or for
who she thinks he is.

K.C. (trying to simplify, but probably making it worse)

______________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:18:11 +0200
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         NKWolke <NKWolke@T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject:      Help! Respect because of Godzilla?!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Hi Folcs,
I'm facing a problem with a fanfiction I'm working on and I thought that
maybe
you guys could help me.

The story is mainly about Jimmy. He is sitting at an award ceremony and he's
so
nervous that he's trying to distract himself by looking back to the years
when he
first started working for the Daily Planet.

He remembers all the newsroom gossip (the title of the story is "Gossip has
it
that...) and this naturally leads him to the hottest gossip topic of all
years:
The love story of Lane and Kent.

The chapter I'm pasting below comes very early in the story. It is about the
episode where Lois stole Clark's story and he took revenge by sending her on
this
goose chase for Superman's spacecraft.

One of my several problems with this chapter is: I don't like Clark's
behavior
here very much. Of course it is understandable that he is mad and that he
want's
to show Lois that she can't treat him like a puppy dog. She owns him some
respect, but I don't hink that this silly trap is a very grown up way to get
respect.

And it gets even worse when it comes to the consequences of his revenge,
because
respect is exactly what he gets. Lois *really* respects him more after that
incident and I'm struggling now how to explain it. Why does she respect him
more?
Because he behaves as bad as she does? Because he has shown her what a "man"
he
is?

And to make my trouble really unbearable not only Lois is impressed, Jimmy
takes
Clark's "revenge" as a sign to stand up against Perry White. What is the
message
here? If somebody treats you bad, treat him (or her in this case) bad in
return
and then everybody will think you are a really brave person?

I tried to explain it not with the "actual treatment", but with Clark's
behaviour
after that episode, but I'm still not satisfied.

Maybe you guys have a solution. Maybe I see it wrong and you can tell me
what the
message really is?

BTW this story is totally unfinished and no proof reader has laid an eye on
it
yet, so the language is probably pretty bad. Please bear with me here
because I'm
not a native speaker.

take care
Nicole
AKA CKgroupie on IRC
NKWolke@t-online.de

******************************************************************************
"Gossip has it that..." (Excerpt)

****

Actually it was a story about Superman, that had brought the first big
change in
the relationship of Lois and Clark and it had also brought a big change in
Jimmy's life. It was only a few weeks after Clark had started working for
the
Planet. He had worked with Lois on the story about Space-station Prometheus
and
Perry was very satisfied with this story. Now Perry demanded more stories
about
the mysterious, flying man and assigned his whole team to it. Lois was
furious of
course, because *she* had been the one who wrote the first article about
Superman
and *she* wanted the rights for the Superman-story, but Perry only shrugged
his
shoulders when she complaint about it and said that Superman was a „too big
deal"
to let only one reporter work on a story about him. So Lois was very mad and
she
did something unforgivable. When she arrived too late for a scoop on
Superman
saving two suicides and found Clark had beat her there, she stole the story
and
wrote it in her own name.

Boy, had Clark been mad about that! Gossip on the other hand was delighted
of
course. That was *it*, that was the occasion that would open Clark's eyes
about
Lois and turn the crush into enmity! The staff members couldn't wait to see
a
fight between Mad Dog and the shy guy from Kansas. She would shred him into
pieces of course (poor boy) but to see Lois in action was always interesting
for
the greedy audience!

Jimmy remembered Clark's hurt expression when Lois told him bluntly that he
shouldn't have been so naive and trust her. Nobody should trust anybody
these
days and now he had learned his lesson.
„Is Lois always like this?" Clark had asked him and Jimmy, though a friend
of
Lois and always ready to defend her couldn't deny that the name „Mad Dog"
wasn't
so far fetched.

He had had his own trouble to this time. Perry White seemed to see him only
as
some kind of slave. He never gave him any chance to work at something
newspaper
related. He had known that he had to do the minor work when he took the job
and
he was ready to do that, but he had also hoped to get a chance to do some
newspaper-work like all the other research workers! The only man who seemed
to
notice his desperation was Clark Kent. He told him to go to Perry and to
talk
with him about it, but Jimmy was afraid to do this. Man, Perry White was the
Chief-editor of the biggest newspaper in the world! He couldn't just go to
him
and complain about his job, could he? Clark shrugged his shoulders: „If
you're
unhappy with your job and you think you could do better you have to stand up
and
tell him. It doesn't matter if he's the chief or just Mindy from research.
You
need a little more courage, Jimmy."

Jimmy thought about this a lot and even started one try to talk with the
chief,
but he couldn't go through with it. After all it was easy for Clark to tell
him
he should just go to Perry! *He* wasn't the one who had to face it! It was
always
easier to give good advice than to act them out!
But then Clark showed him that *he* had this kind of courage! He had been
still
mad about Lois stealing his story and he managed to teach her a lesson she
wouldn't forget soon. He not even got the next big Superman-story, he also
showed
Lois that it wasn't wise to get too biased with a story.
Lois had been a „mad dog" like never before. She was so obsessed with
Superman
that she forgot about everything else and every professional pride she had
to get
this story. So she stole Clark's story and used ideas from other coworkers
to
find Superman until one day a mysterious package was sent to her apartment.
Normally Lois would have been much too suspicious to just follow the advice
in
that message that lead her to the canalization of Metropolis, but Lois was
so
obsessed with her story that she blindly went into the silly trap Clark had
laid
out for her. Clark later admitted that he had been so sorry afterwards and
that
he even had tried to stop the package before Lois got it, but she hadn't
listen
to him, when he tried to tell her. So Lois literally crouched through the
mud of
Metropolis, searching for Superman's spaceship only to find a very silly
Godzilla-figure in red Briefs at the described location!

Gossip was excited like never before. Lois defended by a coworker! Never had
something like this happened to her! Who had thought that this Clark Kent
had it
in him?! Boy, now she would be mad! Now she would run ballistic! Now he had
the
worst enemy on this world! Watch out Clark Kent if Lois Lane hated you there
was
no silver lining in *your* future! And he could be so proud! He was the
first man
in the staff who managed to make Lois speechless! What would happen now?
What
would she do? How would she take revenge and how would he respond?

But then it turned out that they all had been wrong. Clark didn't revel in
the
feeling of his victory about the arrogance of Lois Lane. Nobody heard one
bad
word about her from him. His expression was as soft and gentle like it had
been
before when he looked at her and Lois on the other hand did the
unimaginable. She
not only forgave him, she even started to behave more friendly towards him.
Obviously he had earned her respect. Not for the way he had treated her when
he
had taken his revenge, but for the way he behaved afterwards. She realized
that
she had underestimated Clark Kent. This man was *not* a hack from Kansas. He
was
a good reporter and he was also a nice guy who didn’t want to be her enemy
but
who wasn't afraid of her either. She had only the choice to work against him
or
to work with him and to her own surprise she suddenly found it hard to take
the
first option.

****

Jimmy chuckled inwardly when he remembered how impressed he had been about
Clark
and how brave he had felt when he took the first opportunity to speak with
Perry
White. To his big surprise the chief not only didn't fire him, Jimmy
couldn't
help the feeling that Perry even had *wanted* him to stand up and express
his
feelings about the job. He didn't give him any stories to work on of course,
but
he suddenly gave him the opportunity to learn a lot about the work of an
journalist. After another year Jimmy could tell himself without exaggeration
the
best researcher in the city. Lois and Clark for example never wanted to work
with
anybody else!

After that first Superman-incident Perry White partnered Lois with Clark. At
first Lois protested of course, but only half heartily  because inside she
probably had figured out that Lane and Kent could really become a good team.
And
Perry had been right. They got nearly *every* important story in Metropolis.
Numerous editors from the other newspapers made them more than generous
offers
just to get these two in their own staff and they won award after award
during
the years. Had Lois been famous as a reporter, it was nothing against the
credits
she got after being partnered with Clark. Lane and Kent almost immediately
became
a synonym for high quality journalism.

****

to be continued :-)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:41:13 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Hall, Melissa" <MHall05@SPRINTSPECTRUM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Help! Respect because of Godzilla?!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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>Maybe you guys have a solution. Maybe I see it wrong and you can tell me
what
>the message really is?

Well, I don't claim to be the one true source of enlightenment and
answers, but here's my opinion:

I don't see it as 'revenge'. I guess I don't like to think that Clark
would resort to juvenile revenge tactics. I do think that Lois needed to
be taught a lesson. Whatever Mad Dog did in the past, she felt she
deserved respect, and therefore demanded it, but also gave respect in
return, at least to those people she felt had earned it.

However, Lois lost the right to be respected when she went beyond even
what _she_ considered to be acceptable limits- and stole Clark's story.
She probably knew that what she was doing was wrong, but her obsession
with Superman was so commanding, that she didn't care.

I think Clark saw that, and felt that she needed to be brought up short-
to be shown that her obsession wasn't really a healthy thing and that it
was destroying her ethics and the respect of her co-workers. (Okay-
maybe there was a teeny bit of revenge in there...:)

And I think that Lois realized that- sitting in the middle of Mosquito
Central, having followed a lead that should have seemed as fishy as a
deep-sea trench, holding a little Super-Godzilla- realized that she'd
thrown out all of her ethics, standards, and common sense for a story.
And I'd guess that it would take all of it- the false trail and the
smell and the dirt and the bugs- to really drive home the message that
she was wrong. (Well, that and the wonderful image of her limping into
the DP.)

It must have been a long, hobbling walk back to the Planet, and I don't
doubt that she wondered the whole time exactly which co-worker (or
boss?) had dared the wrath of 'Mad Dog' to teach her a lesson. She
probably had most of the newsroom cowed by then, so Clark was probably
the last person she would have guessed to have sent her off on the wild
Godzilla chase, and _that's_ why he earned her respect- because he
didn't lie down like a rug and let her walk all over him, like she
probably expected him to. He showed her that 'mild-mannered' and
'polite' and 'trusting' did not mean that Clark was a doormat. And it
was probably those same traits that made it easier for her to take the
lesson as a lesson and not as revenge- he didn't gloat or try to rub it
in afterwards.

As far as the lesson that Jimmy learned: that's a little more difficult.
I'd like to say that he saw Lois and Clark in the same position as Perry
and himself- and when Clark didn't like the way he was being treated and
did something about it, then Jimmy realized that he too, did not have to
be a doormat (I hope he also realized that sending Perry to the dump
would have gotten him fired. :)

Anyway- feel free to disagree with me or to take my opinion as gospel
truth.

Misha

PS- Nicole- if you want a proofreader, just let me know.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 13:29:32 PDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "K.C. Boyd" <miracles4me@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Help! Respect because of Godzilla?!
Content-Type: text/plain

>>Maybe you guys have a solution. Maybe I see it wrong and you can tell
me what
>>the message really is?

>Well, I don't claim to be the one true source of enlightenment and
>answers, but here's my opinion:
>
>I don't see it as 'revenge'. I guess I don't like to think that Clark
>would resort to juvenile revenge tactics. I do think that Lois >needed
to be taught a lesson. Whatever Mad Dog did in the past, she >felt she
deserved respect, and therefore demanded it, but also gave >respect in
return, at least to those people she felt had earned it.

I agree with that, but I did think that while it taught her a lesson it
was slightly juvenile. And out of character for Clark to put someone in
danger.  But that was probably because right before I saw the ep I
watched a documentary on diseases caused by poor health conditions.  I
even started along the lines of a fic where Lois got sick as a result of
that and Clark felt guilty... but that was also because I wanted to see
how early in their relationship I could bring them together.  I decided
not to write it because I'm a bad writer and I didn't want to make you
guys suffer through one of my stories  and I'm drifting now so I'll
stop.

K.C. (who can type forever about nothing)

______________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 19:25:39 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Annette Ciotola <AMCiotola@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Lois & Clark on CD Rom
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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My apologies to those who recieved this twice...

Hey FoLCs,

I am just putting a feel out for something new.

Through the help of a local friend I have been able to put together a CD-rom
full of Lois & Clark.  This is a compilation of wavs, avis, and jpgs from my
own sources as well as various sources on the internet.

It is not intended for profit, but rather to help out FoLCs that would like
to
have the information on one disk.

I have found it can help save space on the harddrive, because everything can
play right off the CD and it is also a great way to keep a back up of all
your
LnC stuff.

Right now I would be looking for about $10 per CD to cover the costs in
putting it together, plus shipping (it would be slightly more for over seas
depending upon how it was shipped.)

Again, this is just for getting an idea to see who would be interested.

If you are, then please email me PRIVATLEY with your opinions at :

aciotola@epix.net
or
AMCiotola@aol.com

Thank you,
Anne :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:07:34 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Ron Langman <RonL623507@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Lois and clark screensaver
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Can anyone please let me know if they know of any Lois and Clark or Superman
screensaver.  I remember a couple lof months ago, someone was going to put a
flying superman cape screensaver up on their website.  What ever happened to
that.
Thanks
Ronnie
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:32:35 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         -Audrey Howard <Moped12646@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Lois & Clark on CD Rom
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I think a Lois & Clark  CD Rom would be great!!!!

Audrey Howard
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 18:34:18 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby Stark <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Help! Respect because of Godzilla?!
In-Reply-To:  <m0yuLGl-0003E2C@fwd05.btx.dtag.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 08:18 PM 7/9/98 +0200, you wrote:

>[megasnip] Why does she respect him more?

I suspect it's because he's the first peer who stood up to her, who didn't
back off, who didn't turn away. This is so unusual that she didn't know how
to handle it so she treated it almost lightly, flippantly, as though his
prank *hadn't* made any difference to her at all.

But it did.

I strongly doubt he would do anything similar to a superior (in age,
experience or on the job) or to anyone under him (ditto). But he felt it
was worth the try and that maybe he'd succeed. Was he sinking to her
level... or was he simply showing her what it felt like? I guess your
answer will be in what Jimmy thinks of it, as he's your POV character.

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
congratulating you
on choosing JO as a POV :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 23:51:56 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Help! Respect because of Godzilla?!
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In a message dated 98-07-09 14:29:13 EDT, you write:

<< The chapter I'm pasting below comes very early in the story. It is about
the
 episode where Lois stole Clark's story and he took revenge by sending her
on
this
 goose chase for Superman's spacecraft. >>

Maybe it would help to think in terms of 'comeuppance' rather than 'revenge'
regarding what Clark did.  There's a bit of a line between the two, but
"comeuppance" means 'a deserved punishment'  and "revenge" ... is for
suckers
... and villains<g> The one thing that marks the difference between the two
is
motive.  The revenge motive is almost always inspired by hatred, anger,
jealousy or in lesser fomrs; hurt feelings. There's a need to inflict harm
to
the same or greater degree than was inflicted. A comeupance is seen more as
a
lesson ( a 'life lesson' ;) A comeuppance isn't just seen by the person who
delivers it as deserved, but also by most everyone else, including the
recipient (Lois).  Sometimes victims of revenge don't even know what they
did
to cause another person to want to take revenge on them.  An example of this
might be Barbarians at the Planet where Superman broke Lois's heart and she
had no clue as to why.  However in Neverending Battle, Lois knew *exactly*
what she did and that it was wrong and that she deserved to be called on it
because she was literally out of control.

>>>And to make my trouble really unbearable not only Lois is impressed,
Jimmy
takes
Clark's "revenge" as a sign to stand up against Perry White. What is the
message
here? If somebody treats you bad, treat him (or her in this case) bad in
return
and then everybody will think you are a really brave person?<<<

I think it was the elements in the episode that were in play as to how it
all
turned out. Lois was over the top in her pursuit of Superman; compromising
her
journalistic ethics not so much for the story, but for an obsession.  Perry
was pushing Jimmy, not to be mean, but to get him to stand up for himself.
If
Jimmy didn't resent being an errand boy and fixing "Mr Foot" or remounting
bass, then there'd be no problem, but he did resent it and Clark's actions
showed him that sometimes you just have to make a statement. Not to mention
Clark didn't just set the trap for Lois because of the wrong she had done to
him (stealing his story) but for all the wrongs she had committed (steeling
Jimmy's idea and another staffer's source)  I was proud of *both* Lois and
Clark in this episode. Clark, because he was letting Lois know that he
wouldn't just "take it" and proud of Lois for granting Clark the
"satisfaction" (no gutter intended ;) of letting him know she'd sprung the
trap.  She understood why he had taken such action and congratulated him on
calling her on her poor behavior.  If you think about it, Lois could have
been
small about it, gone home, cleaned up and no one would have known what she'd
gone through, but she felt Clark deserved his 'moment in the sun' and so
gave
him that by showing up all dirty and disheveled carrying the Godzilla doll
and
congratulating him in front of everyone.

The best part of all of it, Nicky, is that Clark isn't being mean or
spiteful.
He even regrets sending the map to her and almost warns her, but even though
she ends up falling for the trap, and telling Clark he "won", look at his
expression, that's not what he intended and that's what he tells her.   It
was
Clark's way of saying "I'm your equal, not your underling" and doing so in a
way that impressed Lois and did start them off on more of an equal footing
together.

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:24:56 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Leanne Shawler <volterra@SD.ZNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Superboy Question
In-Reply-To:  <81f78287.35a4e1b9@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>       A couple of months ago I heard about a Superboy Fanfic series and I
was
>wondering whatever became of it.

If it's any help -- there's a link from the Season 5 site to the Superboy
site, although I haven't checked it for a bit -- visit my page below and
follow the links (ok, so I'm hopeless at remembering URLs!)

The plan was to have it premiere this fall ....

Leanne

Leanne Shawler aka Volterra on IRC (volterra@sd.znet.com)
Web Design: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/design/webdesign.html
Home Page: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/leanne.html
Midnight Dreaming: The Original Anthony Warlow Home Page:
http://www.zweb.com/volterra/anthony.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 00:56:09 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         salymc <salymc@GATEWAY.NET>
Subject:      OK,
              Now It's Time For Everyone to Move on to the Next Big
Breakthrough
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C3_01BDAB9D.86B584A0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00C3_01BDAB9D.86B584A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Everyone:

This message is more personal than fanfic-ish or even Lois and =
Clark-ish.  I now have my very own, very personal computer at home to =
use for all kinds of nefarious deeds like sending e-mail to the list at =
12:45 a.m. EST, while sitting in my ....  Well, never mind.   In =
addition, I also have this (to my mind) temporary e-mail account with =
Gateway until I can figure out what internet service provider gets a =
chance to facilitate the dissemination of my "brilliant" bull.  The =
address is:

salymc@gateway.net

which leads one to the conclusion that a person should never choose an =
on-line name at 2:00 a.m. in the morning after several beers.  Be that =
as it may, I am now free to surf the internet's many fine offerings with =
wild abandon.  Um ... just where does one download "wild abandon" =
anyway?

Okay, Beth what's that secret nfic word now?  I have one or two things =
to say about those stories.<g>

Sandy -- Sad that I'm a little too late for L&C on-line chats, but very =
happy to be joining the 20th century just as it's taking its bow.

------=_NextPart_000_00C3_01BDAB9D.86B584A0
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi Everyone:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>This message is more personal than =
fanfic-ish or=20
even Lois and Clark-ish.&nbsp; I now have my very own, very personal =
computer at=20
home to use for all kinds of nefarious deeds like sending e-mail to the =
list at=20
12:45 a.m. EST, while sitting in my ....&nbsp; Well, never =
mind.&nbsp;&nbsp; In=20
addition, I also have this (to my mind) temporary e-mail account with =
Gateway=20
until I can figure out what internet service provider gets a chance to=20
facilitate the dissemination of my &quot;brilliant&quot; bull.&nbsp; The =
address=20
is:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:salymc@gateway.net">salymc@gateway.net</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>which leads one to the conclusion =
that a person=20
should never choose an on-line name at 2:00 a.m. in the morning after =
several=20
beers.&nbsp; Be that as it may, I am now free to surf the internet's =
many fine=20
offerings with wild abandon.&nbsp; Um ... just where does one download=20
&quot;wild abandon&quot; anyway?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Okay, Beth what's that secret nfic =
word=20
now?&nbsp; I have one or two things to say about those=20
stories.&lt;g&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sandy -- Sad that I'm a little too =
late for=20
L&amp;C on-line chats, but very happy to be joining the 20th century =
just as=20
it's taking its bow.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00C3_01BDAB9D.86B584A0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 06:36:24 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The SoulMates Chronicles:  Sea Hawk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Thanks for another SoulMates Chronicle. Without giving the plot away, I did
notice one typo in the very beginning. <g> <<Besides, this man does not look
harmless.">> I think you (Lolita) meant does look harmless.

I have to admit, at first I thought perhaps the Lois & Clark souls in this
era
were going to turn out to be brother and sister. I guess I do wonder how
many
times they came together in other forms than lovers. Perhaps father and
daughter? Twins? Grandparent and grandchild? Even one of them 20 years older
than the other? Both men? Both women? All Wells said was whereever she is,
there you (Clark) are also--or something like that.

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:44:36 +0100
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         R Fuller <LoCla@HOPPA.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Lois & Clark CD Rom Warning
MIME-Version: 1.0

Hi

This isn't meant to be harsh sounding and I like your idea, however I
wanted to send a warning from an experience I had recently.  I didn't
make a cd but I wanted to buy one.  Ok you may not be looking for profit
but you could still get in serious trouble with Warner Bros anyway.

About 4 months ago now in a British magazine called CULT TV they were
advertising a cd-rom which contained over 100 screensavers and images
from sci-fi shows.  Well because it had 'Lois & Clark' things I ordered
it.  However it never came.  When I heard nothing back from the cd
company I contacted CULT TV magazine.  They said they were very sorry
but it turned out the makers of this cd-rom had not asked permission to
use any of the material and Warner Bros and Fox and other big companies
had found out and were prosocuting.  CULT TV were also prosocuting this
firm because of it too.  I won't now be getting my cd-rom.  I think
these people are probably regular people like yourself who just thought
it would be a nice idea for fans.

If you want anymore information email me.  However I thought I should
warn you.  Lovely idea but it might be wise to ask permission of Warner
Bro's or check out the position with the law first.

I hope this has come across Ok, it is just I didn't want to see anyone
get in trouble.

Rowan Fuller

LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
My apologies to those who recieved this twice...

Hey FoLCs,

I am just putting a feel out for something new.

Through the help of a local friend I have been able to put together a
CD-rom
full of Lois & Clark.  This is a compilation of wavs, avis, and jpgs
from my
own sources as well as various sources on the internet.

It is not intended for profit, but rather to help out FoLCs that would
like to
have the information on one disk.

I have found it can help save space on the harddrive, because everything
can
play right off the CD and it is also a great way to keep a back up of
all your
LnC stuff.

Right now I would be looking for about $10 per CD to cover the costs in
putting it together, plus shipping (it would be slightly more for over
seas
depending upon how it was shipped.)

Again, this is just for getting an idea to see who would be interested.

If you are, then please email me PRIVATLEY with your opinions at :

aciotola@epix.net
or
AMCiotola@aol.com

Thank you,
Anne :)

--
R Fuller
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:03:25 +0200
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         NKWolke <NKWolke@T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject:      Godzilla, respect and Clark as a role model
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Hi Folcs,
thank you all very much for your answers to my Godzilla-problem :-)

I think I have less problems with Lois' reaction to Clark now. I liked
Melissa's
picture of Lois crouching through the mud, thinking about how bad she had
been.
And it is probably like Zoomie wrote, that Lois "was out of control" and
Clark
needed to make a statement. Maybe it was a little bit like a "shock-therapy"
for
her, but she obviously came to her senses. BTW I always admired the way
*she*
handled the situation. That she came to Clark and congratulated him in front
of
everyone showed her style, didn't it?

I also know, that Clark was sorry afterwards and I particularly like this
last
scene, when he tells her that he didn't "win". He didn't want to "win"
because
competition with Lois is not his intention. It is too early to talk about
partnership, but he at least wants to be her colleague and he wants her
respect
as a journalist. *My* point of view was clear during the epsiode. I think
Lois
deserved it and Clark made up for the silly idea, by wanting to warn her and
by
talking to her like he did in the last scene.

Unfortunately Jimmy wasn't there when this last conversation took place and
I'm
still struggling with *his* point of view. In my story Jimmy takes Clark as
a
role model, especially for his way to treat women. In the beginning he
doesn't
understand Clark's relationship to the several women who come onto him at
all. He
 wonders if Clark is gay or crazy or really the "slow-top" the newsroom
gossip
calls him, because Clark seems to be oblivious to every other woman except
Lois.
But then he more and more starts to recognize what *real* love is all about
and
that Clark just doesn't want to make compromizes.

I don't want Jimmy to think that a realtionship is built on power-fights. I
want him to think that it is built on respect. Maybe I'm just going to
describe
Jimmys thoughts about this incident a little further. He thinks about it and
his
first reaction is what we saw in the episode.  And then he wonders why Lois
really appreciates Clark more. I could even write a similar scene he
overhears,
with Clark and Lois talking about work, a relaationship between colleagues,
competition at work or anything like that. It's *my* story after all <g>.
Maybe
then I can make Jimmy find the solution I want him to find :-)

Nicole
AKA CKgroupie on IRC
NKWolke@t-online.de
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:52:16 +0100
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Angee Chaudhry <angee.chaudhry@FASTC.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Lois and clark screensaver
In-Reply-To:  <7cdb4007.35a55b47@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0

In message <7cdb4007.35a55b47@aol.com>, Ron Langman <RonL623507@AOL.COM>
writes
>Can anyone please let me know if they know of any Lois and Clark or
Superman
>screensaver.  I remember a couple lof months ago, someone was going to put
a
>flying superman cape screensaver up on their website.  What ever happened
to
>that.
>Thanks
>Ronnie

Hi Ronnie,

I can't say for sure where to find it but I can point you in the right
direction ..

try Jenny Stossers website as you may find something there .. I haven't
seen the screensaver personally but at least you will be one step
closer.

The website is:

 http://www.ozramp.net.au/~jenerate

Good luck ..

Angee
--
Angee Chaudhry
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:19:33 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Georgia E. Walden" <gwalde14@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: The SoulMates Chronicles:  Sea Hawk
In-Reply-To:  <3b8ba73b.35a5eea9@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:36 AM 7/10/98 EDT, you wrote:
>I have to admit, at first I thought perhaps the Lois & Clark souls in this
era
>were going to turn out to be brother and sister. I guess I do wonder how
many
>times they came together in other forms than lovers. Perhaps father and
>daughter? Twins? Grandparent and grandchild? Even one of them 20 years
older
>than the other? Both men? Both women? All Wells said was whereever she is,
>there you (Clark) are also--or something like that.

Just in case one of the writers doesn't reply to this -

>From the script:
                Wherever his was, there was yours,
                never one without the other.  Two
                lovers destined to meet and fall in
                love over and over again throughout
                Time.  Truly a mythic bond.

In the episode as aired, the lines are identical except tht the last one
about the mythic bond was cut.  Perhaps they thought that was a little too
on the nose. ;)  Instead, Wells goes on to say: "Anyway, that's the good
news ..." <g>( which is a nice comic touch and effectively cuts the
sentiment) and explains what they have to do (or not do <g>) to circumvent
the curse.

Georgia
gwalde14@mindspring.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:10:29 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Leanne Shawler <volterra@SD.ZNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: OK,
              Now It's Time For Everyone to Move on to the Next Big
Breakthrough
In-Reply-To:  <00c601bdabbf$0f4930c0$984948a6@oemcomputer>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>     Hi Everyone:   This message is more personal than fanfic-ish or  even
>Lois and Clark-ish.  I now have my very own, very personal computer at
>home to use for all kinds of nefarious deeds like sending e-mail to the
>list at  12:45 a.m. EST, while sitting in my ....  Well, never mind.   In
>addition, I also have this (to my mind) temporary e-mail account with
>Gateway  until I can figure out what internet service provider gets a
>chance to  facilitate the dissemination of my "brilliant" bull.  The
>address  is:   salymc@gateway.net   which leads one to the conclusion that
>a person  should never choose an on-line name at 2:00 a.m. in the morning
>after several  beers.  Be that as it may, I am now free to surf the
>internet's many fine  offerings with wild abandon.  Um ... just where does
>one download  "wild abandon" anyway?   Okay, Beth what's that secret nfic
>word  now?  I have one or two things to say about those  stories.<g>
>Sandy -- Sad that I'm a little too late for  L&C on-line chats, but very
>happy to be joining the 20th century just as  it's taking its bow.

What do you mean "A little too late"? There are still L&C online chats! Oh,
wait a minute, we don't talk much about L&C .... just witter away about
anything really ....

LEanne

Leanne Shawler aka Volterra on IRC (volterra@sd.znet.com)
Web Design: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/design/webdesign.html
Home Page: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/leanne.html
Midnight Dreaming: The Original Anthony Warlow Home Page:
http://www.zweb.com/volterra/anthony.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:46:48 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Georgia E. Walden" <gwalde14@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: Godzilla, respect and Clark as a role model
In-Reply-To:  <m0yuaxZ-0003DSC@fwd03.btx.dtag.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:03 PM 7/10/98 +0200, you wrote:

>I think I have less problems with Lois' reaction to Clark now.

I'm glad you see this episode this way now, Nicky.  I agree 100% with the
explanations - NEVERENDING BATTLE is, in my opinion, one of the most
important episodes in the series.  I must say, though, that I was surprised
that you saw it in terms of a "power fight" or that you thought that Jimmy
would infer some kind of lesson in sexual politics from it.

Clark was very clear when Jimmy explained his difficulties with Perry. He
told Jimmy to "tell him how you feel."  So when Clark dealt with Lois (a
specific response to a specific situation)  Jimmy decided that he had to
deal with his own situation too, instead of letting his resentment fester.
I don't think that Jimmy was reading the conflict between Lois and Clark as
a man/woman thing at all - it was just two people who were having a
problem, just as he and Perry were having a problem, and both were resolved
by taking action, not by sitting back and whining about it.

>Unfortunately Jimmy wasn't there when this last conversation took place
and I'm
>still struggling with *his* point of view. In my story Jimmy takes Clark as
a
>role model, especially for his way to treat women. In the beginning he
doesn't
>understand Clark's relationship to the several women who come onto him at
all.

Naturally, you can write any story any way you want to ;) but there really
isn't all that much rationale *on-screen* for this interpretation of the
Clark/Jimmy relationship in first season.  This is fine with me - I was
always just a bit resentful of any screen time given to the secondary
characters then; we got so little Lois and Clark as it was, I hated to see
precious moments being spent on anyone else. ;)  When they did concentrate
on Jimmy's interactions with others, we saw him with Perry (mostly), with
Lois (tagging along on stories), or with Cat (based on his dealings with
her, I don't think he was paying much attention to Clark's attitudes toward
women.<g>)  Jimmy seemed to admire Superman in a rather juvenile way (he
thought he might use his x-ray vision to cheat at cards) and he and Clark
were newsroom buddies, but they related as equals, and rightfully so, since
Clark had a lot of growing up to do, too. Clark mentioned going to
ballgames with Jimmy in THAT OLD GANG OF MINE, and maybe they did, but I
really couldn't see it.  They spent more time showing Clark's big brother
attitude toward Jack in his few appearances than the CK/Jimmy friendship.
In second, third, and fourth season, it was still Perry who seemed to have
the most impact on him, but at least in these later shows, you have some
evidence that Jimmy cares what Clark thinks.

What I'm getting at in a roundabout way here is that building a story
around Clark's good influence on Jimmy is going to require a lot more than
the early episodes ever gave.  Clark does behave well in NEVERENDING
BATTLE, just as Lois does, and gives Jimmy the impetus to do something for
himself, but throughout the rest of first season, Jimmy could be forgiven
for not knowing exactly what lessons to take from any of his older but not
always wiser friends at the Planet.

Georgia
gwalde14@mindspring.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:38:32 +1000
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Louise Kendall <jem@WEBONE.COM.AU>
Subject:      Re: Help! Respect because of Godzilla?!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Nicole,

I never saw Clark's behaviour as 'bad' (although I may be mistaking your
meaning on this) but instead a rather creative way of standing up to Lois
and basically telling her that he would not put up with this sort of
behaviour.

He did not do to Lois what she did to him.  She basically betrayed his trust
deliberately and with forethought.  Clark had no idea she would do this and
she knew it.  There was no warning and no 'out'.  I probably won't explain
this very well but here goes.  If you think about it, what Clark did to Lois
was not a fait accompli.  If she had not been so obsessed about getting the
story on Superman, maybe she would have taken the time to really do her job
and investigate where the tipoff came from.  Something that, as a reporter,
she should have done right away.  If she had done that she might have saved
herself a lot of embarrassment - and given Clark time to 'fess up.  Clark
did not lie to her nor did he set her up with a face to face lie.  His
actions also allowed her the opportunity to ensure that no-one but she would
ever know she had been duped.  She could have gone on the wild goose chase,
gone home and changed and nobody would have known.  She did not allow the
same opportunity for him.

As to the premise that people respect you when you behave badly - I
disagree.  Clark was responding to Lois' behaviour.  He was basically saying
that he won't stand for that sort of behaviour from her.  He didn't bad
mouth her to her colleagues (he actually didn't need to, they all knew what
she had done, but that's neither here nor there), he didn't swear at her or
call her names or behave violently towards her in any way (which a lot of
people would have done and is what I call bad behaviour).

I think the lesson that he taught Lois is that while he may look and act
like a 'farmboy' he won't allow her or anyone to ride roughshod over him,
that there is a line that he won't allow anyone to cross, that he demands to
be treated with a certain level of respect.  And that's what he got out of
Lois.

I think that this is the lesson he taught Jimmy, that sometimes you have to
stand up for yourself and demand that others treat you with respect.  Let's
face it, a lot of people will do things simply because they can get away
with it - not because it's the right thing to do.  As for Jimmy's
'confrontation' with Perry - it was short and to the point.  After all, he
couldn't quite master the 'let's be reasonable and explain it to the Cheif'
approach so he tried something different.  And it worked.

The way I saw the whole "Godzilla" thing was that Clark never treated Lois
with disrespect.  He displayed his anger with her behaviour in such a way as
to drive his point home without ever once treating *her* with contempt.

Like I said, I probably didn't explain my feelings very well but I hope you
can figure out what I was trying to say.

Btw, you don't write too badly - native speaker or not. :):)

jem
(who thinks this is the longest post she has ever made)

-----Original Message-----
From: NKWolke <NKWolke@T-ONLINE.DE>
To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
<LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Date: Friday, 10 July 1998 4:29
Subject: Help! Respect because of Godzilla?!

Hi Folcs,
I'm facing a problem with a fanfiction I'm working on and I thought that
maybe
you guys could help me.

The story is mainly about Jimmy. He is sitting at an award ceremony and he's
so
nervous that he's trying to distract himself by looking back to the years
when he
first started working for the Daily Planet.

He remembers all the newsroom gossip (the title of the story is "Gossip has
it
that...) and this naturally leads him to the hottest gossip topic of all
years:
The love story of Lane and Kent.

The chapter I'm pasting below comes very early in the story. It is about the
episode where Lois stole Clark's story and he took revenge by sending her on
this
goose chase for Superman's spacecraft.

One of my several problems with this chapter is: I don't like Clark's
behavior
here very much. Of course it is understandable that he is mad and that he
want's
to show Lois that she can't treat him like a puppy dog. She owns him some
respect, but I don't hink that this silly trap is a very grown up way to get
respect.

And it gets even worse when it comes to the consequences of his revenge,
because
respect is exactly what he gets. Lois *really* respects him more after that
incident and I'm struggling now how to explain it. Why does she respect him
more?
Because he behaves as bad as she does? Because he has shown her what a "man"
he
is?

And to make my trouble really unbearable not only Lois is impressed, Jimmy
takes
Clark's "revenge" as a sign to stand up against Perry White. What is the
message
here? If somebody treats you bad, treat him (or her in this case) bad in
return
and then everybody will think you are a really brave person?

I tried to explain it not with the "actual treatment", but with Clark's
behaviour
after that episode, but I'm still not satisfied.

Maybe you guys have a solution. Maybe I see it wrong and you can tell me
what the
message really is?

BTW this story is totally unfinished and no proof reader has laid an eye on
it
yet, so the language is probably pretty bad. Please bear with me here
because I'm
not a native speaker.

take care
Nicole
AKA CKgroupie on IRC
NKWolke@t-online.de

****************************************************************************
**
"Gossip has it that..." (Excerpt)

****

Actually it was a story about Superman, that had brought the first big
change in
the relationship of Lois and Clark and it had also brought a big change in
Jimmy's life. It was only a few weeks after Clark had started working for
the
Planet. He had worked with Lois on the story about Space-station Prometheus
and
Perry was very satisfied with this story. Now Perry demanded more stories
about
the mysterious, flying man and assigned his whole team to it. Lois was
furious of
course, because *she* had been the one who wrote the first article about
Superman
and *she* wanted the rights for the Superman-story, but Perry only shrugged
his
shoulders when she complaint about it and said that Superman was a „too big
deal"
to let only one reporter work on a story about him. So Lois was very mad and
she
did something unforgivable. When she arrived too late for a scoop on
Superman
saving two suicides and found Clark had beat her there, she stole the story
and
wrote it in her own name.

Boy, had Clark been mad about that! Gossip on the other hand was delighted
of
course. That was *it*, that was the occasion that would open Clark's eyes
about
Lois and turn the crush into enmity! The staff members couldn't wait to see
a
fight between Mad Dog and the shy guy from Kansas. She would shred him into
pieces of course (poor boy) but to see Lois in action was always interesting
for
the greedy audience!

Jimmy remembered Clark's hurt expression when Lois told him bluntly that he
shouldn't have been so naive and trust her. Nobody should trust anybody
these
days and now he had learned his lesson.
„Is Lois always like this?" Clark had asked him and Jimmy, though a friend
of
Lois and always ready to defend her couldn't deny that the name „Mad Dog"
wasn't
so far fetched.

He had had his own trouble to this time. Perry White seemed to see him only
as
some kind of slave. He never gave him any chance to work at something
newspaper
related. He had known that he had to do the minor work when he took the job
and
he was ready to do that, but he had also hoped to get a chance to do some
newspaper-work like all the other research workers! The only man who seemed
to
notice his desperation was Clark Kent. He told him to go to Perry and to
talk
with him about it, but Jimmy was afraid to do this. Man, Perry White was the
Chief-editor of the biggest newspaper in the world! He couldn't just go to
him
and complain about his job, could he? Clark shrugged his shoulders: „If
you're
unhappy with your job and you think you could do better you have to stand up
and
tell him. It doesn't matter if he's the chief or just Mindy from research.
You
need a little more courage, Jimmy."

Jimmy thought about this a lot and even started one try to talk with the
chief,
but he couldn't go through with it. After all it was easy for Clark to tell
him
he should just go to Perry! *He* wasn't the one who had to face it! It was
always
easier to give good advice than to act them out!
But then Clark showed him that *he* had this kind of courage! He had been
still
mad about Lois stealing his story and he managed to teach her a lesson she
wouldn't forget soon. He not even got the next big Superman-story, he also
showed
Lois that it wasn't wise to get too biased with a story.
Lois had been a „mad dog" like never before. She was so obsessed with
Superman
that she forgot about everything else and every professional pride she had
to get
this story. So she stole Clark's story and used ideas from other coworkers
to
find Superman until one day a mysterious package was sent to her apartment.
Normally Lois would have been much too suspicious to just follow the advice
in
that message that lead her to the canalization of Metropolis, but Lois was
so
obsessed with her story that she blindly went into the silly trap Clark had
laid
out for her. Clark later admitted that he had been so sorry afterwards and
that
he even had tried to stop the package before Lois got it, but she hadn't
listen
to him, when he tried to tell her. So Lois literally crouched through the
mud of
Metropolis, searching for Superman's spaceship only to find a very silly
Godzilla-figure in red Briefs at the described location!

Gossip was excited like never before. Lois defended by a coworker! Never had
something like this happened to her! Who had thought that this Clark Kent
had it
in him?! Boy, now she would be mad! Now she would run ballistic! Now he had
the
worst enemy on this world! Watch out Clark Kent if Lois Lane hated you there
was
no silver lining in *your* future! And he could be so proud! He was the
first man
in the staff who managed to make Lois speechless! What would happen now?
What
would she do? How would she take revenge and how would he respond?

But then it turned out that they all had been wrong. Clark didn't revel in
the
feeling of his victory about the arrogance of Lois Lane. Nobody heard one
bad
word about her from him. His expression was as soft and gentle like it had
been
before when he looked at her and Lois on the other hand did the
unimaginable. She
not only forgave him, she even started to behave more friendly towards him.
Obviously he had earned her respect. Not for the way he had treated her when
he
had taken his revenge, but for the way he behaved afterwards. She realized
that
she had underestimated Clark Kent. This man was *not* a hack from Kansas. He
was
a good reporter and he was also a nice guy who didn’t want to be her enemy
but
who wasn't afraid of her either. She had only the choice to work against him
or
to work with him and to her own surprise she suddenly found it hard to take
the
first option.

****

Jimmy chuckled inwardly when he remembered how impressed he had been about
Clark
and how brave he had felt when he took the first opportunity to speak with
Perry
White. To his big surprise the chief not only didn't fire him, Jimmy
couldn't
help the feeling that Perry even had *wanted* him to stand up and express
his
feelings about the job. He didn't give him any stories to work on of course,
but
he suddenly gave him the opportunity to learn a lot about the work of an
journalist. After another year Jimmy could tell himself without exaggeration
the
best researcher in the city. Lois and Clark for example never wanted to work
with
anybody else!

After that first Superman-incident Perry White partnered Lois with Clark. At
first Lois protested of course, but only half heartily  because inside she
probably had figured out that Lane and Kent could really become a good team.
And
Perry had been right. They got nearly *every* important story in Metropolis.
Numerous editors from the other newspapers made them more than generous
offers
just to get these two in their own staff and they won award after award
during
the years. Had Lois been famous as a reporter, it was nothing against the
credits
she got after being partnered with Clark. Lane and Kent almost immediately
became
a synonym for high quality journalism.

****

to be continued :-)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:43:31 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Lansbury 1 <Lansbury1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The SoulMates Chronicles:  Sea Hawk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 7/10/98 6:36:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Larus2407@AOL.COM
writes:

<< Thanks for another SoulMates Chronicle. Without giving the plot away, I
did
 notice one typo in the very beginning. <g> <<Besides, this man does not
look
 harmless.">> I think you (Lolita) meant does look harmless. >>

I am glad you liked the story.  I went back and checked the passage which
includes
the above line.  Dona Marta De la Fuenta Vasquez/Martha is speaking......
"You are right, my daughter. Juan would offer his help and in his name I
will
do the same.  Besides, this man does not look harmless." (meaning Wells)

In the complete context of her statement the line is correct.

I am happy your read the story and if you have anymore questions please ask.

Annie Lansbury
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:45:25 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Carolyn Schnall <cschnall@MAIL.MED.CORNELL.EDU>
Subject:      Dean on AH again
Comments: To: deancainfans@onelist.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello Fellow FOLCs:  Just when I was feeling worn down by the irony of
watching Access Hollywood every weekday evening for weeks and weeks and
still mssing Dean on the weekend show (picture faithful Dean fan screaming
"WHAT??!!!!!")  I caught him on AH last night again.  It was a quickie
about well known stars like DiCaprio not getting cerain TV roles and how
Dean almost got Baywatch before he got L&C.  I have often wondered if he
might have gone out for Baywatch.  The guy who got Baywatch instead bears a
slight resemblance to Dean and it was implied that Dean was inexperienced
even though he was very strong and that it was a hard decision after Dean
was called back several times.

Carolyn
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:25:59 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Sandra McDermin <SMcDermi@NAS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Fanfic Review: Paradise Lost, etc.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> Still in all, I did have questions and found myself not quite buying into
a   few developments.  For instance, when Rebecca was kidnapped 20 years
ago,  wouldn't you have expected the FBI to have gone over every nook and
cranny of the Sowerby farm and surrounding areas, possibly coming across
the toxic  waste that had already been dumped?,<SNIP>

>>Even as recently as 15 years ago, the FBI did not become involved in the
disappearance of children.  You may have seen the movie Adam, which showed
the true story of Adam Walsh's kidnapping (in 1981... or around this time),
and his parents received little effective help (and this was in a city,
when the child had disappeared in a public place).  In a small town, with a
very small police force, and virtually no reason for involvement of the
FBI, it doesn't surprise me that they wouldn't have found something that
they never knew to look for.<<

You may be right, but the only reason I mentioned the FBI is because the
authors did.  When Jonathan is telling Lois the story he says, "The local
police eventually brought in the FBI; they ran down a lot of false leads,
but never found the girl, or found out what happened to her, etc. etc...."

>  Furthermore, why, when confronted with Lois Lane, did Medlock explain
everything he had done:<

>>Okay... this always happens....<SNIP> It's classic, absolutely classic.
<<

I agree with you.  I just wondered why the authors didn't take a different
tack.

<  Not only that, at the end of the story, I felt it wrong of the Kents to
"strongly advise" her to contact her parents.  After all that she's been
through, I can see her harboring a lot of misgivings and anger --
especially knowing that her father was culpable.  I thought it better of
the Kents just to be supportive without pushing one way or the other.

>>The Kent's were classic for giving unconditional support, and their
opinon, in the same breath.  Remember them sending Clark back to Lois?
"So, I should just crawl back to her?", "No, Sweetheart, Fly back, it's
faster."  It would have been out of character for them to remain neutral
when they knew how much her parents had missed her, loved her, and wanted
to see her.<<

Clark is their son; Frannie/Rebecca is almost a stranger.  Furthermore, I
didn't get the impression that the Sowerbys were all that close to the
Kents.  Even if they were, it really isn't the Kent's business to dispense
unasked for advice to a young woman they don't know -- especially since
they also don't know the full extent of her father's involvement with this
whole business, nor what emotions she's been harboring all these years
about her abandonment -- which is all she knew about it before now.

>  Fifth, when Superman helps the EPA clean up the site by flying all the
>  barrels to the sun, isn't he, in effect, destroying evidence?

>>I think that the evidence could have been effectively documented and
still
allow him to protect the earth from it's effects.  He has thrown bombs and
such into the atmosphere quite regularly, and the criminal usually ends up
behind bars.  I don't think this was much of a problem.<<

True, but the bombs were *potential* damage.  The chemicals had already
done their dirty work.  Perhaps they could have been transported to a place
where the government stores dangerous substances.  I just think there's the
possibility of evidence which might help to trace where the chemicals came
from.  After all, the two villains are not the ultimate bad guys here; they
had to have a source for these chemicals -- a multinational, a Lex Luthor
type?

We'll learn more about this when Genevieve or Pat responds<g>.

************************

>Sandy -- Sad that I'm a little too late for  L&C on-line chats, but very
      happy to be joining the 20th century just as  it's taking its bow.<

>>>What do you mean "A little too late"? There are still L&C online chats!
Oh,
wait a minute, we don't talk much about L&C .... just witter away about
anything really ....
LEanne<<<

You mean you still participate, Leanne?  Well, *that* changes everything --
of course ; )  Actually, I'm having enough difficulties figuring out my
mail system, which I don't think I like at all.  The thought of figuring
out on-line chatting gives me headaches. Maybe someday -- if I ever get
comfortable enough with this thing in my bedroom -- that is, the computer,
I might give it a whirl.

Sandy
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:02:21 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Godzilla, respect and Clark as a role model
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 98-07-10 07:07:13 EDT, you write:

<< I don't want Jimmy to think that a realtionship is built on power-fights
>>

Then Jimmy would be laboring under a complete misconception, because a part
of
any relationship that is worth keeping is in fact about the occasional
'power
fight'.  You have to sometimes stand up for yourself so you don't lose
yourself  to 'the couple' or forfeit your voice in that relationship.
Probably
the absolute best scene of the series that dealt with this power-fight
struggle was the end scene to When Irish Eyes are Killing.  Lois loves Clark
so much, and it would have been easy for her  to just give in when Clark
wanted to get back with her, but Lois had to stand up for herself there or
she
would have found herself facing that same or a similar problem over and over
again with Clark.  If she didn't let Clark know right there that he didn't
have the right to run her life, then the next time it happened, it would
only
be that much harder for Lois to make her point.  When you fail to make your
point of view clear from the beginning,  then the ending can become Perry
and
Alice.

We saw their marriage crash and burn 3rd season, but the signs that they
didn't have the most rock solid of marriages had hints along the way.  Why
would Alice "have spies everywhere"?  Did she not trust Perry?  If so, had
he
given her reason not to trust him? Perry indirectly associates the phrase
"caged animal" to "marriage" in And the Answer is. Perry and Alice had gone
to
Larry Smiley's retreat from love and commitment and though Perry told Lois
the
retreat did wonders for their marriage, he told Jimmy that he was "on thin
ice" with Alice.  Perry was obviously resentful having to go to the symphony
(which he hates) but is going because Alice loves the symphony.  That would
even be touching in a way if it weren't so obvious that Perry was doing it
out
of fear (whether of confrontation or making the ice thinner).  In Just Say
Noah, what is the first thing Perry asks about when he becomes conscious?
Right, the paper, and Alice is an obvious second thought.  In Ultra Woman he
has Jimmy phone Alice instead of doing it himself and while that's a great
way
to postpone a confrontation, it won't avoid one.  The more he postpones, the
deeper Alice's resentment becomes.  It reaches a point where she feels he no
longer has a vested interest in the continuation of the marriage ,and so she
leaves him.

Jimmy's point of view of Lois and Clark's relationship might be humorously
skewed or entirely distorted.  Not to mention the recurring element that
exists throughout Lois and Clark's relationship -- Superman.  What would
Jimmy
make of Lois's long affiliation to the 'man of steel'?  What was his *real*
first thought when he saw the tabloid photos of Lois and Superman?  I don't
even have to ask what Jimmy thought when he saw Clark zipping his fly in
Super
Mann ;)  Anyway, it should be an interesting story, Nicky ;)

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:51:25 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         goldengrove unleaving <kubitc@KENYON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Godzilla, respect and Clark as a role model

<< Jimmy's point of view of Lois and Clark's relationship might be
humorously
skewed or entirely distorted.  Not to mention the recurring element that
exists throughout Lois and Clark's relationship -- Superman.  What would
Jimmy
make of Lois's long affiliation to the 'man of steel'?  What was his *real*
first thought when he saw the tabloid photos of Lois and Superman?  I don't
even have to ask what Jimmy thought when he saw Clark zipping his fly in
Super
Mann ;)  Anyway, it should be an interesting story, Nicky ;) >>

This is an interesting point. I've always wondered how Lois and Clark's
relationship would appear to various outsiders. I know Zoom's fanfic Cruise
Control did a great job at showing Scardino's possible reaction; since Clark
had been treating Lois poorly, especially from Scardino's POV, he was
surprised
that Lois would have *married* him. And the S5's The Cat in the Hat Comes
Back
did a good job with Cat and her reaction to Lois and Clark's marriage. But I
wonder about other characters... Lucy, Lois's psychic neighbor Star, Jack
(not
Olsen), Rachel Harris, Linda King, Molly, Dr. Friskin... I know some of
these
characters were brought back for Lois's baby shower in Sandy's episode of
S5,
but it would be interesting to get a more specific, individualized look at
Lois
and Clark's relationship from each of their points of view.

-Christy
 kubitc@kenyon.edu
 Attalanta on IRC
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:13:39 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "D. Baker" <dar-mn@WRITEME.COM>
Subject:      Still Waiting for help... Re: HELP ME PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!
Content-Type: text/plain
MIME-Version: 1.0
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    I'm still waiting for help re: my last msg to the list.  I would like to
get off this list ASAP, if not sooner.

DB

 ---- I wrote:
> HELP ME PLEASE!!!!!!
>
> I want to get off this list, but don't know how.
>
> Can someone please tell me how to unsubscribe to this list or post the
listserv msg that tells how to unsubscribe?  I don't know what name/nick I
used to subscribe with, so if I need to know that then I'd need to know how
to find that out, too.
>
> Thanks, in advance, for your help.
>
> DB
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------
Get free personalized email at http://four11.iname.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:38:09 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Vicki Krell <Vicki.Krell@ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Godzilla, respect and Clark as a role model
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain

Clark zipped his fly in Super Mann????? How did I miss that? Or was it
implied?? Dang!! <bg>

Vicki
Vicki.Krell@ASU.Edu <mailto:Vicki.Krell@ASU.Edu>

        I don't even have to ask what Jimmy thought when he saw Clark
zipping his fly in Super
        Mann ;)  Anyway, it should be an interesting story, Nicky ;)

        Zoomway@aol.com <mailto:Zoomway@aol.com>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:25:35 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Gardners@htc.net" <gardners@HTC.NET>
Subject:      HHEEEELLLLPPPPP!!!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello all (Again),
        I tried to get off this list as I said but I am having problems. I
got =
a message that said "output of your job "gardners" and the message said =
I was unsubscribed but I have still been getting mail for about 3 to 4 =
days. Someone please *PRIVATELY* e-mail me (Farah?) and Help me. Goodbye =
*again*=20
                Brad Gardner
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:28:40 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Godzilla, respect and Clark as a role model
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-07-10 18:38:52 EDT, you write:

<< Clark zipped his fly in Super Mann????? How did I miss that? Or was it
 implied?? Dang!! <bg>
  >>

Yes, after the floor buffing scene is interrupted by Jimmy, Clark is trying
to
get back into the 'Clark' suit.  It's at the point where Clark moves up next
to Lois while Jimmy is standing at the door.  When the camera switches to a
back shot of Lois and Clark, don't look at Jimmy, watch Clark's movements ;)
Then look at Jimmy's face. *We* know that Clark was just zipping the
trousers
back over the Superman costume, but Jimmy could let his imagination run
wild,
and no doubt did<g>

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:48:14 +1000
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Jenny Stosser <jenerate@OZRAMP.NET.AU>
Subject:      Re: Lois and clark screensaver
In-Reply-To:  <oKo0eFAwBgp1IwYa@fastc.demon.co.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

thanks for the advertisement angee!

As for the screen saver, i believe erin klingler was working on one, but
was having trouble finding a website with enough space to hold it or
something.

At 12:52 PM 10/07/98 +0100, Angee Chaudhry wrote:
>In message <7cdb4007.35a55b47@aol.com>, Ron Langman <RonL623507@AOL.COM>
>writes
>>Can anyone please let me know if they know of any Lois and Clark or
Superman
>>screensaver.  I remember a couple lof months ago, someone was going to put
a
>>flying superman cape screensaver up on their website.  What ever happened
to
>>that.
>>Thanks
>>Ronnie
>
>
>Hi Ronnie,
>
>I can't say for sure where to find it but I can point you in the right
>direction ..
>
>try Jenny Stossers website as you may find something there .. I haven't
>seen the screensaver personally but at least you will be one step
>closer.
>
>The website is:
>
> http://www.ozramp.net.au/~jenerate
>
>Good luck ..
>
>Angee
>--
>Angee Chaudhry
>
>
--
Jenny Stosser -*- jenerate@ozramp.net.au -*-This message is umop ap!sdn
 (Jenerator or Some1Else on IRC) -*- My ICQ# is 11477318
Photos of David (5) and Megan (2) on the Stosser Family HomePage:
http://geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/4583  Please sign our guestbook!
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:14:23 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Godzilla, respect and Clark as a role model
In-Reply-To:  <eec527f2.35a6a3a9@aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
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At 07:28 PM 7/10/98 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-07-10 18:38:52 EDT, you write:
>
><< Clark zipped his fly in Super Mann????? How did I miss that? Or was it
> implied?? Dang!! <bg>
>  >>
>
>Yes, after the floor buffing scene is interrupted by Jimmy, Clark is
trying to
>get back into the 'Clark' suit.  It's at the point where Clark moves up
next
>to Lois while Jimmy is standing at the door.  When the camera switches to a
>back shot of Lois and Clark, don't look at Jimmy, watch Clark's movements
;)
>Then look at Jimmy's face. *We* know that Clark was just zipping the
trousers
>back over the Superman costume, but Jimmy could let his imagination run
wild,
>and no doubt did<g>
>
>Zoomway@aol.com
>

No, DO look at Jimmy, he looks down, notices Clark's open zipper,
Clark zips up after noticing Jimmy's gaze, Clark acts normal and
Jimmy looks at Lois, obviously checking her lipstick and/or blush ;-)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
| "What's done to children, they will do to society." - Karl Menninger|
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:04:33 -0500
Reply-To:     peabody@mcs.com
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pat <peabody@MCS.COM>
Organization: Amarna House
Subject:      Re: Fanfic Review: Paradise Lost
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi FoLCs,

It's Friday evening, and I at last have a few free moments to respond to
Sandy's very kind review of "Paradise Lost"

Sandra McDermin wrote:
>
> "Paradise Lost" was written by Genevieve and Pat as episode 19 of the TUFS
> virtual fifth season.  I had read it some weeks ago and promised the
> authors I would post my thoughts (and perhaps stimulate some conversation)
> but I got caught up with other things (like visits from Chicagoans<g>).

The Chicagoans enjoyed their visit very much, thank you :)

<snipped>

> As I remembered from my last read through, I was immediately struck by
some
> general similarities in theme and even little asides to my own virtual
> episode, which, by coincidence, was also episode 19.  I think -- though
> this might horrify Genevieve and Pat -- that we've rubbed off on each
other
> since we've worked so closely on other stories<g>.  For instance, both
> stories had as a sub-theme the issue of money, both used the imagery of
the
> sun, both made a joke of the Titanic film as well as junk food such as
Ding
> Dongs and Ho Hos....  The psychic friends network has nothing on us!

It must have been at the subconscious level; I'd made the Titanic joke
because
I was hearing so much about the film (at the time I wrote the story,
last
Spring) and thought it would be a very "topical" bit of humor.

<snipped Sandy's praise re: our seamless blending of A & B plots>

> Still in all, I did have questions and found myself not quite buying into
a
> few developments.  For instance, when Rebecca was kidnapped 20 years ago,
> wouldn't you have expected the FBI to have gone over every nook and cranny
> of the Sowerby farm and surrounding areas, possibly coming across the
toxic
> waste that had already been dumped?  Not only that, I could also see where
> the parents might have come under some sort of suspicion and, so, it would
> not be unusual to investigate any business or other dealings that they had
> had -- including deals that had gone sour.

Then Crystal added:

> Even as recently as 15 years ago, the FBI did not become involved in the
> disappearance of children.  You may have seen the movie Adam, which showed
the
> true story of Adam Walsh's kidnapping (in 1981... or around this time),
and
> his parents received little effective help (and this was in a city, when
the
> child had disappeared in a public place).  In a small town, with a very
small
> police force, and virtually no reason for involvement of the FBI, it
doesn't
> surprise me that they wouldn't have found something that they never knew
to
> look for.

Having had some very limited experience with FBI agents, (they used to
borrow
books from an accounting library that I managed) I feel fairly
comfortable
in saying that they're not all Scully and Mulder ;)  The tireless,
intuitive,
driven investigator protrayed on tv, and in films and popular fiction,
doesn't always exist in real life.

Also, at the point when Rebecca disappeared, most of the "dumping"
on the Sowerby farm consisted of experimental chemicals.  Since it
wasn't
anything that the agents (or just about anyone else) had any experience
with,
they probably assumed that it was some new type of fertilizer, if they
noticed
it at all.  As for the agents not finding the child, I didn't see that
as
terribly unbelievable.  Even with full cooperation from everyone
involved,
I suspect that crimes are solved more often by an "anonymous tip" than
by
careful investigation.  Also, given the situation here:  Mr. Sowerby
being
involved in a possibly illegal dumping scheme, *and* Sowerby also
knowing that the
kidnappers might harm Rebecca if they discover he told their whole story
to the
FBI agents, Sowerby might have been reluctant to give the investigators
the
full information they needed to solve the crime.  It would be a terrible
position for a parent to be in:  if he doesn't cooperate with the
agents,
he may never see his child again, but if he does cooperate, and the
kidnappers
find out that he "squealed" *before* the FBI finds the kidnappers, the
kidnappers might retailiate by killing the child.

>
> Secondly, why were the perpetrators still hanging around?  I got the
> impression, at the beginning of the story, that they were making their
last
> visit to the Sowerby farm.  Shouldn't they have been long gone?  No one
> would have been able to trace them as far as I could see (more on that
> later).

The perps were still running a lucrative dumping business, and since
the farm was abandoned, they felt pretty safe.  Once they discoverd that
some effects of the chemicals were starting to show up in other areas of
the county, (after 20 or so years of dumping)they decided it might be a
good idea to leave town.

> Shouldn't they have covered up the hole where they dumped the
> toxic waste?  Furthermore, why, when confronted with Lois Lane, did
Medlock
> explain everything he had done:

Uhh...tradition?

>
> >>Suddenly it all made sense to Lois.  "You kidnapped Rebecca Sowerby."
>
> Medlock nodded.  "Twenty years ago, her father leased us this land.  When
> he found out what we were doing, he threatened to go to the police.  We
> couldn't have that, so we kidnapped his daughter. We met him later.... <<
> etc.
>
> I know that this type of thing often happens in mystery/suspense stories,
> but I always thought that there should be another way of getting to the
> truth without the bad guy stupidly and unnecessarily confessing to
> everything.  And, of course, they always do this while waving a gun.
> ("Hey, Mr.  Villain!  Just shoot them and be done with it!")

C'mon, audiences *love* cliches; <g> just look at the last season of
L&C.  (I *know* that I'm going get into trouble, big time, for that
last comment!)

>
> Thirdly, Lois' interest in the Sowerby farm seemed above and beyond.  I
> know that she supposedly has a nose for news, but she seemed almost
> obsessed to the point of taking pictures and doing library research
> (without Jimmy!) for no apparent reason.  Of course this is a very
> important plot development, but I would have liked a more practical, Lois
> Lane reason for her interest in an old abandoned farm in Smallville.

There's something fascinating about an abandoned house, particularly one
that still holds some vestiges of the previous occupants (furniture,
wallpaper, etc.)  Besides, Lois wasn't really that thrilled with
country life--it was probably an intellectual exercise for her.
>
> Fourth, why was Frannie aka Rebecca Sowerby in Smallville?  I don't recall
> her explaining this.

We explained it near the end of the story; Rebecca had graduated from
library school (yes, that's really what it's called) recently, and had
answered an ad advertising a job in Smallville.  The Kents point out
to her that, at least subconsciously, she wanted to return to her
family.
(There are less than 40 library schools in the U.S., so it's not
unusual for their placement offices to post ads for out of state jobs)

> I was willing to suspend all disbelief, but not when
> she proceeded to rattle off the names of her kidnappers.  She was a
> traumatized 4 year old when snatched.  I can't see how she could have
> remembered them so readily.  (Of course, this would help in
identification.
> Lucky she was there.)

I'll let Genevieve answer that one ;)

> Not only that, at the end of the story, I felt it wrong of the Kents to
> "strongly advise" her to contact her parents.  After all that she's been
> through, I can see her harboring a lot of misgivings and anger --
> especially knowing that her father was culpable.  I thought it better of
> the Kents just to be supportive without pushing one way or the other.

Crystal responded:

> The Kent's were classic for giving unconditional support, and their
opinon, in
> the same breath.  Remember them sending Clark back to Lois?  "So, I should
> just crawl back to her?", "No, Sweetheart, Fly back, it's faster."  It
would
> have been out of character for them to remain neutral when they knew how
much
> her parents had missed her, loved her, and wanted to see her.

Also, I think that people who live in small towns are much more likely
to offer advice.  That probably stems from knowing your neighbors pretty
well.
And while Frannie didn't exactly solicit their advice, I like to think
that she
was hoping they'd offer it.  Maybe that's why she was hanging around at
the
Kents' after Superman rescued her.

> Fifth, when Superman helps the EPA clean up the site by flying all the
> barrels to the sun, isn't he, in effect, destroying evidence?

I'm assuming that the EPA kept sufficient samples of the chemicals to
use in prosecuting the polluters.

>
> Other minor points (not necessarily A plot):
>
> 1) At one point, when a storm occurs and the lights go out in Smallville,
> you write:
>
> >>Superman wouldn't be putting in an appearance to repair the power lines
> anytime soon, because the storm would most likely knock them out again.
> Besides, who was he to deny the Small County Power Company the opportunity
> to test their disaster plan?  He'd involve himself only if the plan failed
> or the power company found itself overwhelmed by outages.<<
>
> I thought you should have said here that Superman would not be involving
> himself at all.  Considering all of the crime in Metropolis and crime and
> disasters everywhere else in the world, why *would* Superman help Small
> County with a power outage?

I wasn't going to mention Superman at all in that section, until it
occurred
to me that some of our readers might likely be asking, "Why doesn't
Superman
just reconnect the electrical power instead of lighting the fireplace?"
That
seemed to call for an explanation. But you're absolutely right--Superman
not showing up in Smallville at that same time as L&C is a much better
reason for his non-interference.

That seems mighty suspicious in light of the
> fact that Clark just happens to be there too.  Of course, Superman does
> show up to rescue Lois and help the EPA but I am assuming that, by that
> time, L&C have already involved him in their investigations -- so it seems
> much more plausible.
>
> 2) The Kent farm:  I wonder about the concluding developments here.  Would
> it really only take one to two years for the chemicals to disappear from
> the soil?  Even so, wouldn't Jonathan have to jump through a lot of hoops
> to get back in the market?  Wouldn't he have a difficult time finding
> buyers later considering that the poisoning of the area soil was big news?

Uhmmm...I think I'll leave this one for Genevieve, too.

> Little Observations:
>
> I must admit to chuckling one or two times upon seeing certain references.
> For instance, the description of the airplane as a "tin can with wings"
> that the "passengers would have less chance of surviving a disaster [in]
> than the passengers on the Titanic."   Or Clark's comment: "the farm is
> worth it to me.  I may have moved on, but I always come back.  It's not
the
> red earth of Tara, but it *is* where I draw my strength.  The yellow sun
> may recharge me, but my roots are here in Kansas,..."  These are
definitely
> Pat-isms, right?

LOL, Sandy, I think you know us too well!  All of these are indeed
"Pat-isms"
(I think I like that term)  Genevieve wrote the section about strength,
and
roots and recharging, which I liked very much.  After I'd was read it
over,
I sent her an e-mail, suggesting that Clark was sounding like Scarlett
O'Hara talking about "the red earth of Tara." That's how the phrase
ended up in the story.

> (I can't identify Genevieve so easily, except when Lois
> talks about getting rid of her doctor<g>.)
>
> I also laughed at Clark's response to Lois when she asked if he was
> "offering to show a city girl a Kansas good time."  Pretty funny.

Thank you very much!  Not quite as sophisticated as some of the double-
entendre dialog in season one, but I was kind of proud of that line  :)

> Finally -- despite what I enumerated above -- I take my hat off to you
guys
> for trying to build a complicated, interesting A plot.  I was never bored
> by it and the fact that I analyzed it so closely meant that I was very
> engaged in it.  As I said, this is downright difficult to do, and I
> remember sweating every conceiveable glitch in the A plots I've tried to
> come up with:  "If the villain did this, then Superman could do that ....
> So, he *can't* do that.  etc. etc.

"A" plots are the bane of L&C fanfic writers.  I have a wonderful "B"
plot scene playing out in my mind right now, but I'm having a tough
time coming up with an A plot to work it into.

> Good work guys -- especially the writing.  It really flowed.

Thank you both, Sandy and Crystal, for all of your kind words!  Nothing
makes a writer happier than hearing that someone enjoyed and
appreciated their work.

Pat
(who, like Lois, doesn't need any
encouragement to argue with a doctor :)

P.S.: Congratualtions, Sandy, on getting that computer running and
online
so quickly!

--
peabody@mcs.com
pattijean@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:25:33 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Leanne Shawler <volterra@SD.ZNET.COM>
Subject:      OFFTOPIC: Keep "The Big Valley" on the air! (and other Fam
Chan
              shows)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

hello all,

Crossposted from LOISCLA ... I know this is off topic, so please, all
responses to this should come to me, volterra@sd.znet.com ....

The Fox Family Channel (purchased about 6 months ago by Fox, I think) is
scrapping it's mainly western programming to replace it with a stack of old
sitcoms and Spice Girls concerts rumoured to "bring the family together".
The new programming goes into effect August 15th so we don't have much time.

Well, this takes off an old favourite Western of mine (and in fact, the
only western I have *ever* taken an interest in) called "The Big Valley"
which airs 6 days a week on the Family Channel.

Fellow fans have started a writing campaign, and if you're at all
interested, then you might want to head on over to
http://members.aol.com/lmlbcr/BVHome.html
to find out how and who you can protest to. And if you're saving another
favourite show on the Fam Chan -- remember who told you about it and put in
a good word for "The Big Valley" *grin*

Leanne

Leanne Shawler aka Volterra on IRC (volterra@sd.znet.com)
Web Design: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/design/webdesign.html
Home Page: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/leanne.html
Midnight Dreaming: The Original Anthony Warlow Home Page:
http://www.zweb.com/volterra/anthony.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 01:35:28 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: The SoulMates Chronicles:  Sea Hawk
Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>>  Dona Marta De la Fuenta Vasquez/Martha is speaking......
"You are right, my daughter. Juan would offer his help and