From:  "L-Soft list server at Indiana University (1.8d)" <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
To:    "ARTF@MemoryAlpha.nil"
File:  "LOISCLA-GENERAL-L
LOG9806A"

=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 01:24:37 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Lois's backstory
In-Reply-To:  <199806010031_MC2-3EBC-ECC6@compuserve.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:31 AM 6/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey, can someone refresh my memory...?
>
>When did Ellen & Sam get divorced -- how old was Lois?  Was she in
>high school?  And I've a vague memory of a comment Lois made in Lucky Leon,
>that she had a big fight and moved away from home -- when was that?
>
Yep that's the right ep...except the fight was with her dad so it must've
been
before the divorce.

>And how do I reconcile the girl who was in chess club & math club &
>never played hooky (PML) with the one who dated the quarterback and was
>friends with the popular kids (IASWAA)? :-/
>
You've got 4 years of high school to work with...

>Thanks for any and all responses! :-)
>
>PJ
>
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
|  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson, TWYH  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 01:41:13 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Lois's backstory
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-06-01 00:32:19 EDT, you write:

<< When did Ellen & Sam get divorced -- how old was Lois?  Was she in
 high school?  And I've a vague memory of a comment Lois made in Lucky Leon,
 that she had a big fight and moved away from home -- when was that?   >>

I think Lois says in Season's Greetings her parents broke up when she was
12.
In Lucky Leon she says she had a huge fight with her father when she was 18
(senior) and moved out.  Now, how long she was with her father before the
big
fight, who knows.  Since her parents were divorced by then, maybe she'd
first
had a huge fight with her mom, moved in with her dad, had a fight with him,
and then moved out on her own<G>  She wouldn't be the first child of
divorced
parents to move from living with one to the other as it suited her
'temperament' ;) It's not specified, so I think anything goes really.

>>>And how do I reconcile the girl who was in chess club & math club &
never played hooky (PML) with the one who dated the quarterback and was
friends with the popular kids (IASWAA)? :-/<<<

Are you saying chess and math club members are inherently unattractive and
unpopular?<g>  In Return of the Prankster, Lois said she was popular in high
school, though that could have been her own self-assessment.  Since It's a
Small Wold After All was written by Teri, maybe it was something of
dream/revenge fiction.  She admitted to being a nerd in high school, a late
bloomer and that boys not only turned her down when she asked them to dance,
they turned her down as cruely as possible. However when she did finally
blossom, guys weren't in short supply anymore. Lois could have been the same
way (nerdy, awkward, and then blossoming) and if she was, snagging the star
quarterback would have been a coup singnaling that the ugly duckling to swan
transformation was a complete success<g>   Also Lois was Class President,
which really isn't in the same league as the other "big shots" like the
quarterback, head cheerleader or homecoming queen.  The popularity of a
Class
President can go either way, it can be a popular kid that others vote for
whether that person is qualified or not, or be someone most of the other
kids
never heard of, and got voted into office by the dozen or so kids who went
to
the trouble to vote<g>

In Pheromone, My Lovely, Lois said she had "fun" in high school, but never
said whether she was or wasn't popular.  Those who join a chess or math club
must find it fun,or why join? ;)  My friend belonged to the Spanish club in
high school, not because he was great at speaking Spanish, but (a) they had
some fun fieldtrips and cookouts, and (b) he had a crush on one of the girls
in the club<g>  I don't think there's anything incongruous with the Lois of
P,ML and the Lois of IASWAA, but both may indicate a pre and post
transformation of her, just as happened with Teri.

Zoomway@aol.com (suffering from "posting frenzy" today ;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 02:06:08 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: NFIC rated (Re: once a month...)
In-Reply-To:  <2.2.16.19980530174728.0cff109e@swcp.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:46 PM 5/30/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>I agree, they don't fight enough.
>
>I don't want them to fight unless it's a logical consequence of what's
>happening in the story. I would like to see some "conflict" as a way of
>showing that the story is dealing with people who are different from each
>other and not in predictably sync 110% of the time.
>
>From Lucky Leon: (As if everyone doesn't know ;-)

Clark:
"You know...when you think about it, the only time people ever really seem
to
 express themselves is when...they're passionate, and that polite veneer of
society drops off, you know, like when their fighting."

Lois:
"Or make love."

Me:
I read Lois and Clark (n)fanfic to see expressions of the characters. And in
Lois and Clark's own words we have the best methods of doing so.

>Debby
>Debby@swcp.com
>who will read all the stories eventually...
>hopefully before installing Win98 :)
>

I believe Win98 has been delayed...

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
|  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson, TWYH  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 02:15:37 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Lois's backstory
In-Reply-To:  <23f7bebb.35723efa@aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:41 AM 6/1/98 -0400, you wrote:

>  Those who join a chess or math club
>must find it fun,or why join? ;)

I and several others were "drafted" into the math club
since no one wanted to join.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
|  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson, TWYH  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 06:34:28 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby Stark <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: NFIC rated (Re: once a month...)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:10 AM 5/31/98 -0400, you wrote:

[snip]

>Close.

not "close" - right on! :)

>Chinese? Yes.

That's what half the little booklet was written in.

>Are they meant for hand use? Well, that is what you are
>supposed to tell naive folks when they ask what they're for, although I
>supposed it is a legitimate purpose all by itself. However, my hands never
>felt better using them. (Not that I've used them. ;-)

One other use that I know of is not outlinable on this particular list...
also, the booklet recommends keeping the "iron balls" clean and *dry*.... ;)

>>>The bell inside sounds like "bao-ding" while the balls are moving, and
the
>>>metal of each exterior, clashing together, also makes an interesting
sound.
>>>For the show, I suspect they used some other kind of no-sound ball-shaped
prop.

>'bao-ding' is the sound they make not a Chinese word, right?

I suspect "bao-ding" was the direct translation of the Chinese and probably
a translation by a Chinese person. This word (bao-ding), understand, was in
the booklet.

>The Chinese word or term I've heard of is "ben-wa",

Ah, yes, I've heard that, too. I think "bao-ding" is more musical :)

>I don't know the translation. Although Clark probably would know.

And I suspect he's used them only when they were clean and dry... innocent
boy that he was at the time... ;)

>>Actually they say that the ball will have stronger effect if you can roll
>>both of them with one hand rapidly and it makes no sound.

While the booklet goes into some depth about the health benefits (the
booklet also notes the certifications and awards the Bao-ding plant got from
the government for its good work), it doesn't mention rapidity of use.
However, I suspect what you hear may be right or at least another affect.
Slow use may also be advised, just as Tai Chi is practiced slowly so that
the practicer gets to know her/his body better and can use the martial arts
forms efficiently at different speeds.

>>Maybe they had
>>this guy rolling these ball to give us an idea of his persanality as a
very
>>smart person or something like that.

I'd say this was likely in fanfic but I don't think the director thought so
deeply when filming the episode. The balls weren't mentioned in the version
of the script I have, so I don't think it occurred to the writers, Blake &
Jackson. "Wick" was just noted to be "a man who would make G. Gordon Liddy
nervous."

>>I don't know if you ever rolled these balls, it's not that easy.

Keep practicing, Vanessa. :)

>I think flipping a coin would've demonstrated his character more clearly.

Well, it would have been trite, too. The balls made for something more
interesting, so I give that credit to whoever thought of it.

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 06:34:32 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby Stark <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: once a month...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 04:35 PM 5/30/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-05-30 07:33:51 EDT, debby@SWCP.COM writes:
>
><< I said, and I quote from my log:
>
>      > some day L&C are *not* going to have perfect sex... then it
>      will be interesting. >>
>
>But see, there have been stories where that has been true, but if you had
>nothing but stories where they never had 'perfect sex' (whatever that is
>exactly ;) then that would be likewise boring.

And I've never argued for that, never argued for "nothing but..." My
argument has been and always will be for more variety.

[snip]

>>>then a few moments later, I said:
>
>     > What if, due to being an *alien*, Clark needs all the
>     foreplay and Lois has to slow down?<<<
>
>Clark's 'alieness' has definitely been used in nfic stories.

And the more that's explored, plus Lois's reactions to it, the more
interesting I find the story.

>However, if
>you're going to set up a scenario where sex sounds or seems more
entertaining
>for just Clark, or at the very least sounds like Lois has to 'do all the
work'
>so to speak, then there would have to be a likewise sufficient payoff for
Lois
>if we're to have the woman who attacks Clark in elevators or while cooking
>breakfast be believable<g>

Lots of ifs in that paragraph, but I appreciate that I inspired them. :)

>>>then, a few moments after that, an IRCer who I won't identify here
said...
>
>     <____> I've read nfics where L&C don't have "perfect" sex.
>     In fact, i kind of did that in "_______" a little, where
>     Lois muses that it wasn't the most intense orgasm she's
>     ever had, but it doesn't take away from the tenderness she
>     feels for him.<<<<
>
>Actually that's true, and very good,

Yep, in nearly every story she has an orgasm, simultaneous with his, every
time
she has sex with him. No mystery there. Yawn city.

>though it's the same as Lois's "great
>date" with Clark ... "it wasn't the wildest or the funniest ..."   It
doesn't
>always have to reach the "pie in the sky summit" but that it is the two of
>them, I think that's why it makes it 'perfect' even if it isn't the most
>'intense' every single time.

The truly interesting thing about their first official date is that Lois
slammed the door in Clark's face. Totally unexpected.

>Julie wrote one where Lois literally passed out
>and it scared Clark, so that was 'intense' but not necessarily something
Clark
>would like to see happen often<g>

And what if it were so boring instead that she rolled over and went to
sleep?

>>>>to which I replied, using the word "orgasm" for the first time:
>
>     > that's still sort of boring, __, that she has an orgasm
>     every darn time<<<
>
>
>As was discussed above, the "big O" isn't always created equal and just
>because one occurs doesn't necessarily mean it was 'perfect' and even that
is
>subjective in itself.  Maybe it's perfect for Lois because it is Clark, and
>vice versa, and nothing reaally more deep than that ;)

Ah, okay. Still sounds boring to me in its inevitability and predictability.

[snip]

>Have you read Sheila Harper's nfic version of A Shot in the Dark?  I'm
>assuming you haven't from the above paragraph and you really might want to
>give it a read.

You assume correctly; I've only read the first version.

>Lois was paralyzed by a gunshot wound, but of course Clark
>still loves her, and is still sexually attracted to her, but he's afraid to
>make a first move, and Lois reads that as disinterest, and that he no
longer
>finds her sexually attractive.  It's a sensitive subject handled
exceptionally
>by Sheila.  However, you ask what if Clark tried "but what if he failed"
... I
>think the fact that he tried means he didn't fail ;)

You've made my point, thanks! Sheila's different take on the subject makes
her story memorable. All different takes interest me.

>>>I'm sure she reflected long and hard upon that thought (for at least...
>20 minutes?) after she realized that he let Lex take her away in
>Double Jeopardy. :p<<<
>
>Wow, until you typed in 'Double Jeopardy' I thought you were talking about
the
>first season finale<g>

Nope, I was just replying to something you wrote :)

>>>>Most Nfic stories, from what I've read, don't go real far to reach any
point
>but the two main characters being really happy at the end.  In the other,
non
>Nfic stories, the author usually tries to tell a story and rarely start out
>with "Well, this story doesn't have an A plot at all--enjoy!"<<<<
>
>Since when?<g>

Does this mean you'd like me to find some samples of authors warning us that
their story has no A plot?

>I mean we had a long thread here on Meet Me in Kansas City,
>and that very long story has no A plot and yet fans voted for it repeatedly
in
>I believe six categories and it won in every single category it was
nominated
>for.

Congratulations, Chris! And thanks for helping Zoom make my point about
needing interesting things going on in stories.

>Lois and Clark as a television series was character-driven, as opposed
>to say Mission Impossible, which was probably as plot-driven as you could
get,
>and so L&C fanfic mostly becomes a character study just as was the case on
the
>series.

Uh-huh? And? Since the show was character driven (which is very nice even
when, IMO, they didn't get it right), why do so many nfics show such
perfect, predictable people?

[snip a lot of stuff that further proves my argument about L&C being
interesting people, too interesting to be writen so trite in some
otherwise well-intentioned stories...]

>>>>However, in posting, writers must realize that people are going to
>read their stories and that people are going to form opinions about them.
>I've formed an opinion about what seems to me to be the typical,
predictable
>outcome of Nfic stories<<<<

>I think there are fans who don't like certain genres, you don't like nfic
>because the few you've read were 'predictable' from your point of view.

What??? Excuse me, time out here!!

I yawn at (never "don't like") *predictable* nfic. I also appreciate any
good writing that may be in the same story, particularly if it attempts an
interesting A plot that otherwise gets the couple into the trite nfic
portion. I *really* appreciate everyone who has the courage to publish their
work, in cyberspace and elsewhere, unpaid, for all to read. And when it
comes to nfic, well, those authors are much more courageous than I am!

So it's far more complex than you seem to think when you attribute certain
likes and dislikes to me or anyone else.

I'll note that I also I've yawned at a good number of the revelation,
wedding and "I'm pregnant!" stories. I'm an equal opportunity yawner--as
well as cheerleader when I read something I like, whether it be part of a
story or the whole thing  :)

Also, of course, if I disliked nfic, I would have never started distributing
ads for it a few years back. If I had started disliking it since that time,
I would have bowed out of doing it.

[snip]

>>>>Yes! That's it! See how interesting *that* is? What if, on top of Clark
not
>telling her first that he was Supes before proposing, he waited until after
>the wedding (the 2nd one, not the chicken one) to mention that he was
>"*really really interested* only about 20 minutes a month? hmm..."<<<<
>
>Oh boy, then have we got a badfic for you<g>  It has the 20 minutes and
>everything! Woo hoo ;)

I look forward to it!

>Zoomway@aol.com (and charades! ;)

Keep miming away! We're watching...!

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
strapping on her seatbelt...!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:12:43 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Lois's backstory
Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>> In Pheromone, My Lovely, Lois said she had "fun" in high school, but
never
said whether she was or wasn't popular.  Those who join a chess or math
club
must find it fun,or why join? ;)  <<

I had fun in high school, as part of the planetarium club (science geeks
<g>) but I doubt the football players even knew I existed... so fun ain't=

the same as popular.

Still, thanks very much for the refresher course, Gary & Zoom :-)  I knew=

I'd get what I needed!

PJ =

!^NavFont02F016F000FMGJHG97MG99HH70CC8C

  E-mail from: Pam Jernigan, 01-Jun-1998
  jernigan@compuserve.com / ChiefPam on the IRC
~~~~~
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jernigan/folc.html
~~~~~
"Are you under the care of a qualified psychiatrist, Constable?" =

-- "The Ladies' Man", Due South
"Women and cats will do as they please and men and dogs =

should relax and get used to the idea." -- Robert A. Heinlein
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:24:45 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: NFIC rated (Re: once a month...)
In-Reply-To:  <2.2.16.19980601053525.09af84f8@swcp.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:34 AM 6/1/98 -0600, you wrote:
>At 11:10 AM 5/31/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>Close.
>
>not "close" - right on! :)
>
>>Chinese? Yes.
>
>That's what half the little booklet was written in.
>

You have to remember that just like Bauch & Lomb sold the exact same contact
lenses with different instructions to wear daily or for a whole week...
the Chinese herbalist sold the same balls for whatever ailment the customer
had. Nobody has said the "magic words" of the original intent of the little
guys...but Clark's alcove where he kept the books with the secrets of
lovemaking
does.

But seeing as though it is on the same theme, and Debby came close I'll
give the list
the guaranteed Kerth Award Winning story idea.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
|  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson, TWYH  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:38:45 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Guaranteed Kerth Award Winning (N)Fanfic Idea
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I think this fits in rather well with the boring nfic thread....

************

"When Gods Test..." Story by Gary A Rudick

Perry was beside himself, he didn't know what to do.

Actually, he did know what to do, he just would rather chew
his own arm off than have to be the bearer of bad news, no
horrible news.

Just then he noticed the arrival of Lois and Clark.

*Right on time* he thought.

It was still early and few others were in the newsroom at the
moment and for that Perry was grateful.

"Clark, could I see you for a moment?" Perry asked in as neutral
a tone as he could manage.

Lois and Clark had just settled down at his desk with their coffee.

"Be right back." Clark said and kissed Lois on the forehead.

Lois smiled as she sipped her hot coffee.

"What's up Chief?"

"Uh, Clark, uh, have a seat, please..."

"Something wrong, Chief?"

"Maybe, it's bad news, I just hope it isn't horrible news."

"I don't understand, what news?"

Perry handed Clark an obituary from a French newspaper.

Clark, startled upon seeing the foreign language, he read it quickly.

Two words stuck into his mind and nearly brought him to his knees,
one of the words was the name of the man who had taken Lois' story
along with her body. Claude.

The other wasn't a word really, but it threatened to take even more of
of his wife just as it had taken so many others. AIDS.

************

Anyone who wants to take it go ahead, just give me credit for the idea...
(Feel free to change the title.)

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
|  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson, TWYH  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:42:21 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Layney Dixon <IndiBlue@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Lois's backstory
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-06-01 00:32:32 EDT, you write:

<<
 And how do I reconcile the girl who was in chess club & math club &
 never played hooky (PML) with the one who dated the quarterback and was
 friends with the popular kids (IASWAA)? :-/
  >>
That was me!!!

The first few years of my life, I stayed pretty close to the things that I
knew how to do best...things that I had control over like a chess board and
mathmatical equations.  From a tiny tot in elementary to the awkward years
of
middle school, I tried hard to keep my nose in a book or my mind on
academics.
Had nothing to do with my home life, I grew up on the closest thing to "The
Cosby Show" that ever existed.  But  then came high school and pushed my
mild-
mannered self to my personal limits  (I skipped my own class to sit in on
another).

High school, however, is more than a caste system of popular kids and nerds.
Unlike the raunchy zoos that are often seen on TV, I perceived high school
to
have a mid-culture.  There, of course, were your screwball, dim-witted
popular
kids who wanted nothing more than to be crowned  king or queen of the prom.
There were also your leatherbacks who wore Hell's Angels leather jackets and
made it their mission to thumb their noses at authority.  And, of course, we
had the neozoomdweebies with inch thick glasses and pocket protectors as
well
as our radical left, long hair, tye-dye wearing activists.  I think it would
be safe to say that all American public schools have their own little
versions
of each of these groups.

The mid-culture people are the individuals who seem to be respected by all
of
the cliches.  The people who are smart, friendly and respectful of people's
differences. The ones who takes a genuine interest in a person b/c of their
personality not b/c of their money or popularity.  It is usually this quiet
group that has the most genuine leaders.  The ones who are elected class
president because they truly do have the support of all of the people. (Lois
was class prez not head-cheerleader)

In IASWAA, villianous chickey (I forget her name) didn't really have a beef
with Lois except that Lois was well-liked.  Lois had never purposely been
mean
to her and had no idea that the villianous chickey was feeling so left out
of
the loop. If Lois had known, she most likely would have reached out to vc
really quick and played a regular game of chess with her or something.

Lois was most likely a classic "mid-culture" who dated little ( although
most
of the boys probably had secret crushes on her) and did not consider herself
very popular (although most girls probably envied her).  She had probably
been
friends with the quarterback and their relationship had taken on a romantic
dimension after slaving over a few Trig exams. I am sure it wasn't for
popularity's sake.

Also, there is always the RL fact that Teri Hatcher was on her way to
'Polytech U' (or something like that) to become an engineer when she opted
for
acting and along the way was a SF49er cheerleader...hmmm, something to think
about.

I hope that helps reconcile the chess club member and the popular girl
scenario.

Layney
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:30:12 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Lydia Esterline <esterline@CONNECTAD.COM>
Subject:      Hello
In-Reply-To:  <MAPI.Id.0016.00656163653920203030303630303036@MAPI.to.RFC8
22>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi there!

I just wanted to say hello to you all. Some of you may remember me from
the list or even irc. Lyds or jei-el.

I was wondering if there is a place that might hold back issues or emails
>from this list? If so could you please tell me where I can find them?

Please send a reply to
lje@poboxes.com

thanks! take care!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:03:18 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Lois's backstory
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-06-01 02:16:50 EDT, you write:

<< I and several others were "drafted" into the math club
 since no one wanted to join. >>

But did you date the star quarterback?<G>

Pam said:

>>>I had fun in high school, as part of the planetarium club (science geeks
<g>) but I doubt the football players even knew I existed... so fun ain't
the same as popular.<<<<

That's what I'd said of P,ML.  Lois said she had fun in high school in that
episode, but not whether she was popular or not.  The first time I remember
her saying she was popular in high school was in Return of the Prankster.
In
my second high school (after we moved ;) we had the football team with one
of
the all time worst records.  The quarterback wasn't very attractive.  He had
no neck and one continuous eyebrow.  So, he wasn't popular either ;)   In
fact, as high schoolers can be cruel, sometimes the football players had
food
lobbed at them in the cafeteria when they showed up on Mondays.

I'd still go with Lois being a late bloomer in high school.  That makes her
like Clark.  He didn't start flying till he was a senior<g>

Then again, some people define 'popular' differently.  Are you popular if
you're well liked by many students, or only if you're *in* with the 'big
shots' in high school?  As far as that goes, the class clown can be popular.
A guy wrote a book titled "The Class of ...(some year ;)"  and said that you
knew how popular you were in high schol by how many tables you were welcome
at
in the cafeteria.  How many 'clique' lines you could cross and be welcome,
in
other words.  So, could Lois sit at the 'geek' table as well as the
'rah-rah'
table?

Zoomway@aol.com (was I popular in high school?  I stood up to eat lunch ;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:16:38 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Getting archives of the Fanfic list
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

To the address: listserv@listserv.indiana.edu

you send

INDEX LOISCLA-GENERAL-L
end

in the body and you get the list below, to
that same address above send

GET LOGXXXX
GET LOGXXXX
end

in the body and you will recieve the log for that week.

*
* Archive files for the LOISCLA-GENERAL-L list at LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
* (weekly logs)
*                                       rec             last - change
* filename      filetype        GET PUT -fm lrecl nrecs date     time
* --------      --------        --- --- --- ----- ----- -------- --------
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9708         LOG OWN V      84  8231 97/08/25
13:30:58
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9708D        LOG OWN V      81  2991 97/08/28
22:30:37
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9708E        LOG OWN V      80  5590 97/08/31
22:08:17
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9709A        LOG OWN V      79  4623 97/09/07
11:05:52
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9709B        LOG OWN V      80  4239 97/09/14
23:06:43
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9709C        LOG OWN V     531  2373 97/09/21
23:18:32
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9709D        LOG OWN V     190  9033 97/09/28
23:32:09
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9709E        LOG OWN V      77   145 97/09/29
08:57:50
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9710A        LOG OWN V      91  2922 97/10/05
21:35:39
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9710B        LOG OWN V      87  2535 97/10/14
20:47:41
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9710C        LOG OWN V      80  4809 97/10/21
22:47:51
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9710D        LOG OWN V      83  9937 97/10/28
07:50:25
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9710E        LOG OWN V      76   654 97/10/30
19:00:12
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9711A        LOG OWN V     237  8326 97/11/07
18:01:43
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9711B        LOG OWN V      80 11511 97/11/14
20:30:30
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9711C        LOG OWN V      99 12360 97/11/21
23:06:35
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9711D        LOG OWN V      80  7687 97/11/28
22:44:25
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9711E        LOG OWN V      80 36066 97/11/30
22:33:42
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9712A        LOG OWN V     553  1867 97/12/07
17:16:56
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9712B        LOG OWN V     243  2157 97/12/14
22:24:25
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9712C        LOG OWN V     106  8290 97/12/21
21:12:03
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9712D        LOG OWN V     616  8620 97/12/28
16:25:14
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9712E        LOG OWN V      78   783 97/12/31
18:03:58
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9801A        LOG OWN V      90 10843 98/01/07
23:23:31
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9801B        LOG OWN V     422  3780 98/01/14
23:19:44
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9801C        LOG OWN V     137  8199 98/01/21
22:18:55
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9801D        LOG OWN V      80  5980 98/01/28
18:21:54
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9801E        LOG OWN V      79  1196 98/01/31
23:43:04
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9802A        LOG OWN V      87  7385 98/02/07
23:41:35
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9802B        LOG OWN V      82  3380 98/02/14
21:39:51
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9802C        LOG OWN V      80  2717 98/02/21
18:47:33
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9802D        LOG OWN V      85  1540 98/02/28
21:21:47
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9803A        LOG OWN V    1103 11405 98/03/07
23:14:45
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9803B        LOG OWN V     130  6248 98/03/14
23:16:48
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9803C        LOG OWN V      79  6615 98/03/21
22:44:24
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9803D        LOG OWN V     133  9605 98/03/28
22:44:31
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9803E        LOG OWN V     165  6526 98/03/31
21:15:45
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9804A        LOG OWN V      80  4930 98/04/07
16:45:18
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9804B        LOG OWN V      85  4434 98/04/14
22:19:04
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9804C        LOG OWN V      80  6334 98/04/21
21:33:17
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9804D        LOG OWN V     110 10351 98/04/28
23:38:25
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9804E        LOG OWN V      85  2664 98/04/30
15:31:26
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9805A        LOG OWN V     214  2816 98/05/07
23:20:56
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9805B        LOG OWN V     226 15223 98/05/14
23:53:24
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9805C        LOG OWN V     321  7069 98/05/21
22:19:04
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9805D        LOG OWN V     311  8162 98/05/28
23:55:31
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9805E        LOG OWN V      85  2909 98/05/31
23:31:51
  LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9806A        LOG OWN V      80   746 98/06/01
12:03:33

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
|  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson, TWYH  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:23:06 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Sandra McDermin <SMcDermi@NAS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Charity Begins on L&C Fanfic List (was Re: Carom/Carob)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

At 07:49 PM 5/28/98 -0400, Sandra McD wrote:
>Jeez, why can't I drum up this interest in my own work?  Ah-h-h well, what
>can I say.  It's my lot in life.  Always doing for others.  Never thinking
>of myself....
>
>St. Sandra

>>Your Lois is comical... but while this would be handled in a back-handed
manner by some (paid) writers, making Lois a buffoon and the butt of jokes,
you show us that in facing potential disaster that she is a strong and
resourceful person.<<

Lois couldn't be anything but strong and resourceful.  She also has a sense
of humor.  I have always patterned my writing of Lois along the lines of
comedic women of the past (or women in comic roles) especially those we've
seen in movies.  For instance, Carole Lombard (My Man Godfrey), Barbara
Stanwyck (The Lady Eve), Katherine Hepburn (Bringing up Baby), Ginger
Rogers (The Major and the Minor), Irene Dunne (Theodora Goes Wild),
Rosalind Russell (His Girl Friday), Claudette Colbert (The Palm Beach
Story, It Happened One Night).  All of these women were bright, beautiful,
strong *and* uproariously funny.  Many times the joke was *on* them (or at
least things happened to them) and yet they never seemed victimized because
they gave as good as they got.  I loved these films and their clever and
witty female leads.

(On a tangential note, I still laugh over the blurb in the Leonard Maltin
movie book which describes "The Lady Eve":  ".... Stanwyck is a con artist
who sets her eyes on wealthy Fonda -- the dolt to end all dolts, who
proclaims, 'snakes are my life.'" <BG>)

>>The jokes (i.e,. the shower) may seem to be on her (she
was sure it would be a big joke), but somehow she fades aside so no cream
pies hit her. Instead, she rises under your patronage to see a silver
lining: her realization that the gifts were for a real baby--*her* real
baby. Before this all the other writers have had her happy at being
pregnant--but only now, in this one moment of this one story, did I have
the
feeling that Lois at last realized what the heck was going on and that it
was really miraculous. Add to it that all the women around her really did
like her and really wanted to be there for her. That was so sweet! Later on
in the story she expressed this realization to Clark, doubling my reading
pleasure. I know we would never have seen anything like this wonderfulness
for Lois on the show (unless they contracted you to write it). Thank you.<<

My goal, with the baby shower, was three-fold.

1)  I wanted a "behind the scenes" build-up, which would give Lois the
false impression that the shower would be a disaster for her (or at least
something *she* wouldn't have planned.)  That's why I made sure that Lois
and her mother never actually "connected" throughout the story -- that she
only heard about all the plans "second-hand".

2)  *However*, I didn't want it to actually turn out to be a disaster.  It
would've been too easy to have Ellen put together something that Lois would
find objectionable.  I wanted Ellen to succeed, because, in my mind, she
has the capability to do so.  After all, she was the wife of a prominent
doctor.  No doubt she entertained important people during their marriage
and was involved in society events.  Why couldn't she put together a lovely
shower?  Ellen seems like the kind of woman -- to me -- who always *looked*
like she had it all together, when, in actually, her life was falling
apart, i.e., she was the closet alcoholic with the seemingly perfect
marriage.

3)  Since this story is a comedy (and, to my mind, a straight shower scene
would have been boring), I wanted the shower to end up falling to pieces --
through no fault of Ellen's, or Lois' or anyone's, but through a simple
misunderstanding which would lead to catastrophe.

>>Your Clark is big hearted. We already knew this, of course, but you
reminded
us of this basic trait of his in several different, ingenious ways. You
bring up, expand upon and use the idea that he set up the Foundation to
distribute the wealth his image had generated (the show should have dealt
more with this...). The money will go for only good things even though
there
might come a time when L&C need help. When he was affected by the red
Kryptonite, he became super acquisitive... not for himself but out of worry
for the future of his family<<

I was attempting to draw a connection between Superman (a flying man) who
was feathering his nest and/or nesting, i.e., preparing his nest for his
young.  It seems to me -- if red kryptonite was going to effect his mind --
it should bring out something that he *secretly* is concerned about.
That's why I had Lois suggest to Clark that he might be worried about their
finances -- playing off of the opening scene where Lois reads in the paper
that it takes $1.2 million to raise a child.

>>Betty as fun at parties--but quick to jump to her friends' defense (I
could almost hear her accent);<<

Betty?  God!  Ellen *is* good.  She managed to invite someone to the shower
who even I can't remember.  Talk about characters taking control of a
story.

>>Ellen... trying her darndest, holding her tongue when saying something
mean would have hurt others, and at last finding a job that really does
suit
her strengths: her organizational skills and her fierce loyalty, both
traits
that would scare Lex and Mindy combined. The Foundation is safe in her
hands.<<

Exactly!  I always felt sorry for Lois' parents, who, through no fault of
their own, will never be able to be close to their daughter just when they
were trying to be.  Not sharing in the big secret, makes them -- by
necessity -- outsiders.  *This* was a way of having Ellen become an insider
without telling her the truth.

>>You did very well with Jimmy. As I read the various short scenes that he
was
in, I thought that I should encourage you write a story focusing on him.
Consider yourself encourage. And, hey, think about write a story for Perry,
too. :)<<

I've never had any desire to write a Jimmy story.  I had an idea for Perry,
but I'm not sure it would go over very well with folcs.

>>I like how you write complex plots yet manage to make them all seem
simple
and flowing. There's a kind of frenetic energy in the atmosphere you build.
I feel like I'm being pulled along and there's almost too much to see--and
yet I want to see it all. This is particularly true, for example, in the
scenes with Lois at the Daily Planet, trying to get her investigation in
gear, shouting at Jimmy, and Jimmy trying to second guess her to save time.
Your scenes with Clark and Superman don't have this same flavor, which is
good since neither of them are/he isn't that kind of person despite his
superspeed.<<

You hit it right on the nose.  Clark isn't a frenetic person, while Lois
is.  But, it's also the case that I can't write Clark/Superman very well.

>>Dislikes...?
The Red Kryptonite plot made me nervous at first, but I realized eventually
this may be because I wasn't in the mood to read about anyone suffering.<<

Except for the daycare scene, I tried to make the "suffering" as
lighthearted as possible.

>>This reticence on my part made me stretch the reading of #19 out over
several days, and each time I'd return to it hoping that L&C would figure
out quickly what was going on and get all that over with and get to the
shower/party ;)<<

If they had figured it out too quickly, the story would have been over.
Hey, that would've saved on the e-mails.

>>I hope you're happy now.<<

Happy?<g>  Well, I am pleased that you liked the story.  I was worried that
I couldn't write something that one *might* consider an episode.  And, I
didn't, but it was the best I could do from ignorance.  (When I looked at
the instructions on how to write an episode that Sheila gave us, all I
could see in front of me were the words "straight jacket".<g>)  I'm afraid
I abandoned it instantly and hoped for the best.

Thank you for the feedback, Debby.
Sandy
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:24:02 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Ooops! Re: Getting archives of the Fanfic list
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.16.19980601131638.098f75f4@vmspop.isc.rit.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:16 PM 6/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>To the address: listserv@listserv.indiana.edu
>
>you send
>
>INDEX LOISCLA-GENERAL-L
>end
>
>in the body and you get the list below, to
>that same address above send
>

it should be:

>GET LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOGXXXX

not

>GET LOGXXXX
>end
>
>in the body and you will recieve the log for that week.
>
>

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
|  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson, TWYH  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:29:02 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "K.M. de Castro" <KampmeyerM@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: New badfic - LnCgoPC
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-05-31 14:27:50 EDT, Frances wrote:

<< The end - unless anyone needs a glossary<g> >>
The glossary, please?

Otherwise, very well-done. I wouldn't know what the PC version of that is...
maybe you can translate!

Marie
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:28:54 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "K.M. de Castro" <KampmeyerM@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: FR: "MMIKC," "YEMK," + "the kitchen sink"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-05-29 22:38:08 EDT, Leanne wrote:

<< when I wasn't singing *very quietly* along to
 ABBA) >>

I knew I liked you for some other reason!

Marie
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:34:17 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: once a month...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-06-01 08:35:19 EDT, debby@SWCP.COM writes:

<< Yep, in nearly every story she has an orgasm, simultaneous with his,
every
time
 she has sex with him. No mystery there. Yawn city<<<

Since simultaneous orgasm is extremely rare, Lois and Clark are being
different already ;)

>>>The truly interesting thing about their first official date is that Lois
slammed the door in Clark's face. Totally unexpected.<<<<

I loved it, I knew Lois was hooked already when she slammed that door.  A
woman accustomed to 'federal disasters'  would scarcely know how to deal
with
a 'great date'.   I loved Perry's confusion trying to comfort Lois because
she
had a great date and didn't know what to do next<g>

>>>And what if it were so boring instead that she rolled over and went to
sleep?<<<

Didn't you get that with the Lois clone?<g>

>>Ah, okay. Still sounds boring to me in its inevitability and
predictability.<<<

Well it is a 'romance' and so a lot of time they're just going to be darn
nice
to each other ;)

>>>You've made my point, thanks! Sheila's different take on the subject
makes
her story memorable. All different takes interest me.<<<

Actually I was hoping to make *my* point, that not all nfic is alike and
there
is a variety out there<g>  Speaking of Sheila, I'll assume you haven't read
her NC17 version of Mxysplit wherein we have Lois pleasuring, and being
pleasured by Clark *and* Superman both at the same time (kersplash! ;)

>>>Does this mean you'd like me to find some samples of authors warning us
that
their story has no A plot?<<<

No, what I'm saying is that strictly B plot fanfic has always been popular,
not just in nfic.

>>>Uh-huh? And? Since the show was character driven (which is very nice even
when, IMO, they didn't get it right), why do so many nfics show such
perfect, predictable people?<<<

I don't write nfic, but I, like other 'non-fleshers' like to participate in
nfic round robin because we know we can get away with a lot of double
entendre
and innuendo that we normally couldn't get away with in regular fanfic, but
still are limited to how far we are willing to go, and so it doesn't
entirely
qualify as nfic, so we do appreciate the 'fleshers' out there who will cross
the line that we don't feel comfortable crossing ourselves.

As far as 'predictable' all fanfic is predictable to a certain extend.  I'd
say 99 percent of L&C fanfic has a happy ending regardless of the turmoil
the
couple might have to endure to get there.  The other 1 percent have unhappy
endings, ambiguous endings, or end with 'to be continued'  and writers can
be
predictable too. If someone is known for writing stories that have heavy A
plots and little B plot, or little to no romance, fans who are fond of that
type of story will gravitate to that writer because he/she writes what they
personally find interesting.   Others who like romance, or as little A plot
as
possible, might avoid his/her stories for the same reason, they're
predictable, but in a way that doesn't appeal to them.

>>I yawn at (never "don't like") *predictable* nfic. I also appreciate any
good writing that may be in the same story, particularly if it attempts an
interesting A plot that otherwise gets the couple into the trite nfic
portion. <<<

Well, it's probably just me, but personally, I'd rather have something I
wrote
be disliked rather than "yawned" at or called "trite"<g>  At least if
someone
hated or disliked it, I'd have provoked an emotional response rather than
boredom.

>>Also, of course, if I disliked nfic, I would have never started
distributing
ads for it a few years back. If I had started disliking it since that time,
I would have bowed out of doing it.<<<

That's likely where my confusion comes from.  When you first started
distributing/advertising nfic, I wrote to you about one of the stories, and
you said you didn't have an opinion on the story because even though you
were
happy to distribute nfic, you didn't read it, and so I figured you'd only
gotten into reading nfic recently and had only read a few, so I apologize
for
the confusion.

Zoomway@aol.com ("My girlfriend said, 'It's not the size that counts, it's
what you do with it'. I said 'huh'? and then got on the phone with my buddy,
'Hey, Joe, she said size didn't matter, it's 'what you *do* with it' that
counts.  Yeah!  me too, just forward and reverse. I don't get it." ;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:27:29 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Frances Coogan <FCoogan106@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: LnCgoPC + glossary
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Marie, there's no need to euphemise positive statements like well done, but
thanks for the comment anyway; and thanks also to Michelle and Peace - I
appreciated your comments and Michelle was quite correct to suggest that I
should have written "helped him achieve his freedom" instead of "helped
break
him out".  -  My apologies to anyone on the list who happens to fall into
the
category of self-released clients of the correctional system, and who was
offended by my inexcusable clarity of meaning. <bg>  I promise it won't
happen
again.

I should really have had Lois on the phone to Bobby Generously-proportioned-
buccal-cavity, too!<g>  Maybe if I can find enough jargon - sorry, I mean
terminologically inoffensive alternative wordforms - for a sequel.

Okay, for those of you having trouble with the terminology (and I can't say
that I'm surprised!) here's a translation of the PC terms in the order they
appear in the story:

nontraditionally ordered - untidy/messy
terminally inconvenienced - dead
metabolically different - dead
nonviable - dead (again)
anomoly - mistake
terminated with extreme prejudice - murdered
cerebro-atmospheric individual - airhead
career-offender cartel - gang
ethically disoriented - dishonest/criminal
differently logical - wrong
I sense the nondiscretionary fragrance of a rodent-American - I smell a rat
(I
love that one!)
fail to maintain clearance from the ground - crash (aeroplane)
energetic disassembly - explosion
persons across the street presenting themselves as commodity allotments
within
a business doctrine - prostitutes
temporally challenged - chronically late
to join a career alternative enhancement program - to be fired
person of torpor - lazybones
motivationally dispossessed - lazy
arbitrary deprivation of life - murder
in the early stages of finalization - nowhere near finished
controlled flight into terrain - plane crash
sub-optimal coming together - bad crash
super-prompt critical power excursion - nuclear meltdown
optically challenged - blind
aurally inconvenienced - deaf
undocumented residents - illegal immigrants
people with pharmacological preferences - drug addicts
involuntarily undomiciled - homeless
differently hirsute - bald
skin-color genetically dominant world majority - black
mutant albino genetic-recessive global minority - white
self-released clients of the correctional system - escaped prisoners
health-alterer - killer
preemptive counterattack - attack
knowledge-base non-possessor - ignorant (of the subject)
counterfactual proposition - lie
to achieve a deficiency - to fail
to be terminologically inexact - to be telling lies
to exploit Mother Earth - to farm
significant other - husband (or wife/boyfriend/girlfriend/concubine, etc)

I apologise to anyone for whom English is not a first language - you
probably
had trouble understanding it.  And I apologise to everyone else - you
probably
had trouble understanding it.

This should clarify things a little!

Frances
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:00:28 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Lansbury 1 <Lansbury1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Lois's backstory
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi,

Didn't she also spend a semester or maybe the whole year as an exchange
student in Ireland?  Remember .....WHEN IRISH EYES ARE KILLING.

Annie
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:06:38 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Crystal Wimmer <JCWimmer@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Help... Krypton Club
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi Fellow FoLCs...

I am trying to get my paws on the old Krypton Club Newsletters.  I have
tried
all the url links I can find, and none work, so I am assuming that the sites
are down.  Did anyone perhaps save them?  If you have them, please e-mail me
privately... I would really appreciate it.

Thanks :)
Crystal Wimmer
JCWimmer@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:56:12 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Sandra McDermin <SMcDermi@NAS.EDU>
Subject:      The Issue of N-Fic
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>>

We, fortunately, have quite a few writers that use their imaginations quite
well.  It's fun to read about the escapades of our favorite couple.  I
must agree, however, with Debby's point about completely mapped out
stories'
use of nfic.   Whether there is an A plot or not, the longer plots are much
more tantalizing with the nfic than the short stories.<<

Generally, I agree that n-fic which has a well developed plot is much more
entertaining than strictly a vignette piece.  At least, in my opinion.  I,
myself, put a lot of thought and effort into the three stories I've
written, and it bothers me that they are *only* defined by their "n"
quality.  One of my stories is 129 pps long, with -- *perhaps* -- 12 pps of
adult material scattered about; the second is about 100 pps long with 9 or
so "adult pps"; and the last is a grand total of 177 pps with -- maybe --
20 pages of "n" material.   On all of the other pages -- 365 of them -- a
lot of suspense, comedy, and romance happen.

When the Kerth's were created, I was frankly disappointed that "n"-fic
stories -- a vast collection of very varied material -- could only be
*fairly* considered in one category.  I say fairly, because if "n"fic is
nominated in a category with "regular" fanfiction, than the "n"fic story
has an extra hurdle to jump.  Ironically enough, the hurdle of limited
exposure.  One of my stories was nominated in a non"n"-fic, non-Chris<g>,
category, but when I saw that it would be up against only regular fanfic,
all of which, combined, was much shorter than my story, I thought it was a
rather awkward comparison (sort of like comparing a short story to a novel
-- a novel which is in another language that only a subgroup could read)
Therefore, I reluctantly withdrew it, even though I would have welcomed the
exposure.

Far, far more important than recognition to me is having people read the
stories, (I mean, what other goal is there?) and I must admit to being
disappointed when adult readers won't consider approaching a story because
of its "n" fic content.  I understand their feelings -- *really* -- and I
respect them, but I can't help but be disappointed all the same, especially
considering the totality of the excellent work which I know has been put
into so many of them.   (Of course, I won't read roundrobins, so who am I
to talk?  Such a hypocrite!)

A few people have approached me about deleting the "n" material from my
stories so that they can be posted to the regular fanfic archives; however,
I was reluctant to do this for one very important reason.  By deleting the
"n" parts of the story, it's as if I were saying that what happened in
those segments was of no consequence to the plot.  And, frankly, that
couldn't be farther from the truth.  I've thought about this and I've
looked at those portions of my stories and found that each of those scenes
contained conversations and thoughts and revelations within them that
contributed to the themes I was writing about or they wouldn't be there.
In other words, if all I was going for was pure titillation then I could
slice away at the story, but I wasn't.  Within each encounter, something is
learned about the characters and it would take a rewrite of whole portions
of the story to reincorporate those developments elsewhere.  In some cases,
it couldn't be done at all and the story would be the poorer for it.  It
surprises me that others have been able to edit their own "n"-fic so well.
I can only think that it must have been a lot of work.

I'm sorry.  I think I've gone off on a tangent....   On to the question of
dissemination.

>>I noticed that Peace posted her nfic with Piper "Heir Return" on Zoom's
list
yesterday.  Well, talk about confict and resolution....that one certainly
focuses on the problems that L&C could experience.<<

"Heir Return"?  I don't believe I've seen that.  Are n-fic writers no
longer sending their work to Debby's list?  I haven't noticed much in the
pipeline lately and wondered if all the fic was going to the website.  I
also wondered if I had to move my stories there (sans e-mail address, of
course) in order to continue to have a readership.  I certainly don't want
to see all of that hard work go to waste.  (I was going to say -- "go for
naught," but with the use of the word "exposure," I thought it would be far
too cute. I'm amazed at all the double entendres going on here <g>.)
Anyway, please advice.

Sandy
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:41:22 +0000
Reply-To:     Barbara.Geraud@mixcom.com
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Comments:     Authenticated sender is <uuyyuu@pop3.mixcom.com>
From:         Barbara Knutson <Barbara.Geraud@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: LnCgoPC + glossary
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Frances explained her vocabulary.......:}

> I apologise to anyone for whom English is not a first language - you
probably
> had trouble understanding it.  And I apologise to everyone else - you
probably
> had trouble understanding it.

Actually, it kinda scares me that I understood everything right as I
was reading it.....:}

And both Jon and I were ROTFL during and after the read!

thanks for the giggles.....

Barbara
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
   Barbara.Geraud@mixcom.com       WAFFyBarb on IRC
   from the land of Cheese and Beer and my beloved
Brand-new-wife of Jon Knutson - the most wonderful man alive
      And a believer that fairy tales *can* come true....
     http://members.tripod.com/~WAFFyBarb/index.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:49:08 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby Stark <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Daddy knows best... (was re: Fanfic Review: "Yet Each Man
Kills")
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:00 PM 5/31/98 -0400, Genevieve wrote:

[big snip of good stuff to get to...]

>I've never really trusted Sam Lane.  Well, that's not true.  I trusted
>him in RFAS, when he handed Lois a tape and said "write your story."  At
>that point, I thought he was actually seeing his daughter (maybe for the
>first time), as an adult, as someone he could count on.  But ever since
>then, there has just been something phony about him, something that made
>me feel he had ulterior motives, or a hidden agenda.

I agree totally. This is why when I think of Sam for my stories, I think of
the RFAS Sam. For Ellen, the HoL Ellen. While it's true we didn't get to see
much of either, at least we didn't see the awful, blaring stereotypes we got
in seasons 3 and 4. Yech!

I feel that by sticking with these two largely unknown people (including
Uncle Mike and Lucy), I have a lot more to work with.

Also, they all look like Lois ;)

[big snip of even more stuff I agree with...]

>We can ask the same question in
>our fictional world too:  why would Ellen go back to Sam?

stop me before I say anything about them having perfect sex...!

>[snip] Her entire vision of her own self-worth and her
>self-esteem were tied up in what *he* thought of her, and how society
>saw her as a wife.  Does Ellen feel this way?

Quite likely. I typed up a paper for a nurse whose in college and one of her
themes was about how women became nurses in order to catch a husband. This
was in the 40s, 50s, and 60s.  That was the image of the nurse--not as
someone competent, a professional, but as a woman en route to getting
married and getting out of nursing. This can apply to "my" Ellen, but I
think of her as having accomplished so much as a nurse that she could fall
back on those skills and gain more after the divorce.

The show's second Ellen instead became a wretched alcoholic.

[snip]

>So Sam and Ellen are "trying to get back together again."  How sweet.
>The "happy-ever-after" crowd was pleased.

You have to recall, too, that this show was never very deep. If some
characters were needed for some scenes, they dredge up some stereotypes and
foist them off on us. This applied to everyone from parents (Lois's
dysfunctional ones and Clark's perfect ones) to professionals (evil doctors,
sleepy police, "duffer" security guards, etc), to the tissue-thin villains.
If it succeeded in generating a temporary laugh or at manipulating our
emotions, that was enough for the creative team.

[snip]

>The episode that pulled it all together for me was Family Hour.  I was
>surprised, the day after it aired, to see that everyone on LOISCLA
>thought the Ellen scenes were hilarious.  I didn't.  I hadn't been so
>embarrassed for a character since Jimmy had stood naked on a nightclub's
>stage.  I thought it was terrible how everyone -- even Jonathan and
>Martha to a degree -- had treated Ellen with such disrespect.
>Whispering about secrets in front of her, giving lame excuses when she
>tried to call them on it, making her feel like an outsider in her own
>family.  And I felt such sympathy for her.

I agree with you completely. I felt much the same way as I watched the show.
The character was there only to be laughing stock and punching bag. She was
an easy-to-write stereotype. If she had returned in season 5, I doubt she
would change (change isn't easy to write, especially for writers depending
on stereotypes). I also doubt any character would remember (or especially
regret) how they treated her. Tossing aside the chance to boost Ellen into a
helpful role, someone Lois could depend on--even just showing this was
possible--was not a shining moment for the series.

Contrast this to how her talents were recognized and put to use by Sandra's
"Charity" story. There are suddenly a lot more meanings to that word, eh?

>I saw Ellen being victimized by her own family, with Sam as the
>instigator, and Lois as an unwilling accomplice.

Unwilling? Hmm... not when they seemed to be getting along pretty well in
INPY. But maybe Lois had amnesia about that, too.

[Snip]

Debby :)
Debby@swcp.com
whose glad we can do it better!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:06:12 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: The Issue of N-Fic
In-Reply-To:  <85256616.007F4637.00@smtpmta.nas.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:56 PM 6/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>>
> I'm amazed at all the double entendres going on here <g>.)
>Anyway, please advice.
>
>Sandy
>
I suppose pointing out the d-e in the Subject line would be too much....

Your stories "Something's Missing" and "Love As A Blonde" put that so-called
Lois & Clark novel by CJ Cherryh to shame.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
|  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson, TWYH  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:11:57 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Review of CJ Cherryh novel
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Date: Sun, 08 Sep 1996 17:15:55 -0400
>Subject: Review of Cherryh novel
>
>        Review of "Lois&Clark:A Superman Novel" by C.J.Cherryh
>       by Gary A.Rudick(gar8434@rit.edu)
>
>       TWO THUMBS DOWN, WAAAAY DOWN!
>
>       The reason there are two thumbs is for the A-plot and the B-plot.
>The problem with this novel is that Lois and Clark spend virtually no time
>with one another in either plot. In fact other than the fact that this is a
>hard cover book, I thought I was reading another of M.J.Friedman's
"young-adult"
>novels where Lois and Clark also barely spend any time with each other in
any
>capacity. Superman is always keeping Clark busy away from Lois while she
does
>*ALL* the investigating, after awhile the "plot" gets real tired.
>       An speaking of the plot, we get these nice little vacations from it
>every once in a while to get a new character analysis. It is appropriate to
>provide ground work for a characters thoughts and actions, but do we really
>need to have it in every chapter? And it is good that the author tries to
get
>into the characters, but since Lois and Clark barely talk to one another,
what
>is the point? The only time we get an analysis of the thoughts and
feelings when
>two characters are interacting is during Lois' prison confrontation with
Lex,
>which while it is good, has already been done and done better.
>       The analyses of Lois are good, but those of Clark/Superman tend to
make
>his superheroics just another boring, tiring, can't wait to get home to
the woman
>I love (not that he ever does) day on the job. Come on! This is SUPERMAN
what he
>does is NOT just another job.
>       Why do they put these clingy poses of the lead characters on the
cover and
>then keep them apart on the inside? So much for truth in advertising. Even
when they
>are able to talk to one another face to face the author doesn't allow them
to touch
>each other since he is in the suit and they are close to the nurses'
station in the
>hospital. Jimmy is sent through the side door to hail a cab, Jimmy should
have stayed
>put and let Lois and Clark go out the side door where they can be alone
for five
>seconds. A scene like this would normally be used as contrast, in contrast
to what?
>They've been apart and now they're still apart.
>       There are fanfics out there written before this novel which have
world
events
>more current than this one has. My recommendation: choose a fanfic, any
fanfic. Now
>don't get me wrong I wasn't miserable reading this book, but I have an
unquenchable
>fire for Lois&Clark, heck I even liked the fanfic where they get divorced.
Of course
>if you really want to buy the book for the cover then just read the first
and last
>chapters and skip the rest. You won't miss much since the final chapter
has just about
>everything significant happening and repeats what you already know, and
repeats what
>you already know.
>       "She just wanted Clark. That was all. Was it too much to ask of the
universe?"
> Apparently it was to much to ask of this author....Ouch.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
|  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson, TWYH  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:11:44 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Anne Carlson <ACdrift@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Issue of N-Fic
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi Sandy,

<< Are n-fic writers nolonger sending their work to Debby's list?  I haven't
noticed much in the pipeline lately and wondered if all the fic was going to
the website.  I
also wondered if I had to move my stories there (sans e-mail address, of
course) in order to continue to have a readership.  I certainly don't want
to see all of that hard work go to waste.  (I was going to say -- "go for
naught," but with the use of the word "exposure," I thought it would be far
too cute. I'm amazed at all the double entendres going on here <g>.)
Anyway, please advice.>>

Zoom started a fanfic section in her site when the AOL Boards went down last
fall.  She saved PLAN9's "On the Run" which is a marathon effort that has
been
in the works for almost a year now.  She also added a Nfic section.  A lot
of
old and new fanfics are there.  Most of the old stories began appearing when
the Kerths voting occured.  Many of the voters had not read some of the nfic
nominees ( sp? God, I'm a terrible speller.  I can't wait until AOL has a
spell check!!).  There are several short stories......I think it was the
main
reason Debby started her "boring nfic" thread.  I think Julie Mack has 25
different ones.  Many people are starting to post the classic nfic for more
people to enjoy.  I think you should consider posting your work over there.

You are such a gifted writer.  Just this evening I finally went back to your
post on the 18th of May about the outline for the "Taken" story.  I
certainly
enjoyed that.  I wanted to jump into this review business that you've
started.......but I can't until school is out (just two more weeks....I keep
chanting).  Please keep up the in-depth discussion.  You are spearheading
this
entire thread....Bravo!

Check out Zoom's site.  You have to sign-up and get the password.  Beth is
the
webmaster
and I'm sure you will get a quick response.  Check out LabRat's stuff.  It's
short, but sweet.  Also, you said you are not into group writing,  but the
"Project 69" is really good.

http://acreativetouch.simplenet.com/zoomway/password.htm

I'll be back in a couple of weeks.....
Anne (ACdrift@aol.com)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:13:11 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Anne Carlson <ACdrift@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Issue of N-Fic
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi All,

Oops......I meant to send this to Sandy only.  Sorry about that!

Anne
(ACdrift@aol.com)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:14:09 PDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Peace Everett <peace9@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject:      Re: Guaranteed Kerth Award Winning (N)Fanfic Idea
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.16.19980601103845.49b7202e@vmspop.isc.rit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> "When Gods Test..." Story by Gary A Rudick

Boy, Gary, you sure do love torturing us don't you...

Please somebody finish this story!

Peace
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:53:11 PDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Peace Everett <peace9@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject:      Re: The Issue of N-Fic
In-Reply-To:  <85256616.007F4637.00@smtpmta.nas.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> >>I noticed that Peace posted her nfic with Piper "Heir Return" on Zoom=
's
> list
> yesterday.  Well, talk about confict and resolution....that one certain=
ly
> focuses on the problems that L&C could experience.<<
>
> "Heir Return"?  I don't believe I've seen that.  Are n-fic writers no
> longer sending their work to Debby's list?  I haven't noticed much in =
the
> pipeline lately and wondered if all the fic was going to the website. =
 I

Okay, just a word of clarification here.  What I posted the other day to
Zoom's list was Piper's PG story The Heir: Return (which was originally =

just entitled The Heir) and the NC-17 sequel to it, The Heir: Healing. =

The reason I posted both is that you really need to read Return for
Healing to make sense.  Both these stories were sent out on Debby's
nfic list in August (?) 1997.  They were just posted at Zoom's site by
request.

For the record, I have to agree with Sandy on the subject of trying take
a story that is nfic and make it... not.  Piper and I discussed the possi=
bility
of a PG version of Healing, struggled with it, and eventually gave up. =
 Too
much happens that is too critical to the story as a whole -- as Sandy sai=
d
it would involve massive rewriting and would end up being a different
story.

Peace
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:02:40 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Guaranteed Kerth Award Winning (N)Fanfic Idea
In-Reply-To:  <MAPI.Id.0016.00656163653920203030303630303036@MAPI.to.RFC8
22>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:14 AM 6/1/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> "When Gods Test..." Story by Gary A Rudick
>
>Boy, Gary, you sure do love torturing us don't you...
>
>Please somebody finish this story!
>
>Peace
>

Yes, Yes I do, and I was such a sweet little boy...;-)

But if you want to make pearls you have to be irritating.

You or anyone else could make it a short story with great arguments
and discussions ending with a test proving Lois is fine.

Or it could be a long epic struggle with Lois actually getting ill
and CK/S borrowing a little you know what from a certain DEA agent.

I would recommend Celine Dion's "Let's Talk About Love"
(the song, not the album).

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
|  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson, TWYH  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:03:47 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Crystal Wimmer <JCWimmer@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Issue of N-Fic
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 6/1/98 9:15:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU writes:

> Your stories "Something's Missing" and "Love As A Blonde" put that
so-called
>  Lois & Clark novel by CJ Cherryh to shame.

Amen... I second this... but then, I fell in love with L&C for the
relationship of the characters, and while Cherryh is unbeatable at weaving a
seamless and intricate story line, she only had Lois and Clark in the same
room a handful of times.  It was a wonderful story... just not my favorite.
You have a gift for turning the relationship into the A-plot... and making
it
amazing.  Thank you so much for your stories :)

Crystal
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:31:51 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Frances Coogan <FCoogan106@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Abba (was FR: "MMIKC," "YEMK," + "the kitchen sink")
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 01/06/98 17:29:31 GMT, Marie wrote:

<<In a message dated 98-05-29 22:38:08 EDT, Leanne wrote:

<< when I wasn't singing *very quietly* along to
 ABBA) >>

I knew I liked you for some other reason!>>

Aaargh!  I was still in badfic mode when I read this and all day I've been
trying to avoid the temptation to do an Abbafic (ie working as many Abba
song
titles into the story as possible - and yes, I know them all!)  If I weaken
it's all down to you two!

Frances
finding it very difficult to proofread a not (intentionally) bad fic so soon
after writing the intentionally bad variety.  Mamma Mia!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:52:43 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Joyce Fitch <joyceef@MCS.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Issue of N-Fic
In-Reply-To:  <85256616.007F4637.00@smtpmta.nas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 8:56 PM -0400 6/1/98, Sandra McDermin wrote:

>
>"Heir Return"?  I don't believe I've seen that.  Are n-fic writers no
>longer sending their work to Debby's list?  I haven't noticed much in the
>pipeline lately and wondered if all the fic was going to the website.  I
>also wondered if I had to move my stories there (sans e-mail address, of
>course) in order to continue to have a readership.  I certainly don't want
>to see all of that hard work go to waste.  (I was going to say -- "go for
>naught," but with the use of the word "exposure," I thought it would be far
>too cute. I'm amazed at all the double entendres going on here <g>.)
>Anyway, please advice.

"Heir Return" is one story is a trilogy.  It is followed by " The Heir:
Behind Closed Doors" which is a round robin, and the last story is "The
Heir: Healing" by Piper and Peace.  You might have seen all three under the
title "The Heir."

I think the n-fic debate is much like the debate over the series and how
much of the relationship should be included.  Including the relationship
certainly adds depth to the characters and adds plot possibilities in the A
plot as well as B.  For me, it is just more realistic to include all
aspects of the characters, and I get annoyed when a writer has to skirt
around natural situations involving sex  just because there is sex.

There certainly is n-fic that is all frivolous sex, but that's another
issue; and I'm not going there <g>.  Certainly your writing, Sandra, is not
that.

Joyce
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:17:29 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Beverly Latham <blatham@HOP-UKY.CAMPUS.MCI.NET>
Subject:      Re: The Issue of N-Fic
In-Reply-To:  <85256616.007F4637.00@smtpmta.nas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:56 PM 6/1/98 -0400, Sandra McDermin wrote:
>A few people have approached me about deleting the "n" material from my
>stories so that they can be posted to the regular fanfic archives; however,
>I was reluctant to do this for one very important reason.  By deleting the
>"n" parts of the story, it's as if I were saying that what happened in
>those segments was of no consequence to the plot.  And, frankly, that
>couldn't be farther from the truth.

I couldn't have said this better myself. Sometimes, the 'n' parts ARE the
whole point of a story. One very graphic fanfiction writer's style
immediately comes to mind. I cannot imagine any way her stories could be
'tamed' without losing the point of why the story existed in the first
place. Of course, they're probably not for the faint of heart either. <vbeg>

Back on topic, I've been following this entire thread with a great deal of
interest and, I have to admit, quite a bit of surprise. Maybe even a little
bit of irritation. Okay, maybe a lot of irritation. I mean, it really
bothers me on a certain level that anyone would dismiss most of the stories
distributed as 'n' fiction as boring, purely based on the assumption that
there isn't anything more there than pages and pages of sex. That's sort of
like saying that LOIS & CLARK wasn't anything more than Superman. Just
because any story, long, short or in-between, may or may not be appropriate
for all age groups does NOT mean that it's all graphic sex by any means.
Sometimes the subject the writer wants to deal with itself causes a
stronger than general rating regardless of sexual content. Not that that is
the norm, by any means. Of course, once a writer knows that a story can't
be placed on the general list due to content anyway, they then have a
certain amount of freedom in other areas. <bg>

>In other words, if all I was going for was pure titillation then I could
>slice away at the story, but I wasn't.  Within each encounter, something is
>learned about the characters and it would take a rewrite of whole portions
>of the story to reincorporate those developments elsewhere.  In some cases,
>it couldn't be done at all and the story would be the poorer for it.

Oye, tell me about it. I have one nfic L&C story out there and it is not
the most graphic around by any means. In fact, it's probably one of the
tamest nfic because most of what made it nfic wasn't the sex scenes
themselves but the situations and discussions Lois and Clark ended up in as
a result of their, er, lovelife. [That and the fact that Clark couldn't
seem to keep his clothes on for some reason past a certain point in the
story . . . however, that was not my fault. Not at all. And furthermore I
have proof that it wasn't all my fault. ***I*** wanted to put his clothes
back on but noooooo . . . <g>]

Er, where was I? Oh, yes, the minefields in terms of editing something down
to less than PG are the conversations and one or two particular types of
situations that may or may not even be considered 'sex' per se. So, then I
started writing it as a different story in most respects to avoid those
situations or at least the motivations that created the situations in the
first place and what happens? Suddenly the same doggone subjects come up
and before I know it if I'm not careful, wham, I'm right back in the exact
same minefield of an 'adult' discussion flowing right out of my fingers.
For me, those things are part of who the characters are and what they have
to talk about in order to get to where they're supposed to end up. Remove
those motivations and discussion or alter them to make the content PG or
less and it IS a different story. No two ways about it. So I do a dance.
Not a jig, mind you, more like a tantrum, because it's so difficult to get
the CHARACTERS to cooperate and keep things g-rated on this one.

I suppose my point is that some stories are like that and you really never
know until AFTER they're written. If a writer attempts to write a story for
a particular list, either way, I think that's where the problems arise. A
good story is simply a good story, regardless of how it ends up being rated.

Beverly :-)

*******************************
Beverly Latham
blatham@hop-uky.campus.mci.net
*******************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:39:47 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Gardners@htc.net" <gardners@HTC.NET>
Subject:      Re: Review of CJ Cherryh novel
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Gary Wrote:

>       TWO THUMBS DOWN, WAAAAY DOWN!
>
>       The reason there are two thumbs is for the A-plot and the =
B-plot.
>The problem with this novel is that Lois and Clark spend virtually no =
time
>with one another in either plot. In fact other than the fact that this =
is a
>hard cover book, I thought I was reading another of M.J.Friedman's
"young-adult"
>novels where Lois and Clark also barely spend any time with each other =
in
any
>capacity. <<<Snip, snip, and then snip some more>>>
Now
>don't get me wrong I wasn't miserable reading this book, but I have an
unquenchable
>fire for Lois&Clark, heck I even liked the fanfic where they get =
divorced.
Of course
>if you really want to buy the book for the cover then just read the =
first
and last
>chapters and skip the rest. You won't miss much since the final chapter
has just about
>everything significant happening and repeats what you already know, and
repeats what
>you already know.

I HATED THE BOOK!!! I was miserable reading it. I am not really in to =
the whole Superhero thing, I always have just liked the show for the =
Lois and Clark part. I thrive for drama, not disaster. The book was =
awful. And also, what cover are you talking about Gary. Mines paperback, =
and it is a golden shining "s". I want the good cover :)
Brad Gardner
Http://www.angelfire.com/ga/gardners/brdswrld.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:39:33 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby Stark <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: once a month...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:34 PM 6/1/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-06-01 08:35:19 EDT, debby@SWCP.COM writes:
>
><< Yep, in nearly every story she has an orgasm, simultaneous with his,
every
>time she has sex with him. No mystery there. Yawn city<<<

>Since simultaneous orgasm is extremely rare, Lois and Clark are being
>different already ;)

So... it's not boring? Since everything else about many nfanfic depictions
of Clark is human normal, maybe that they always climax together should be
thrilling. However, after reading about it happening the 20th time (in 20
different stories), without fail, I find it boring.

[snip; we agree on the unexpected door slam]

>>>>And what if it were so boring instead that she rolled over and went to
>sleep?<<<

>Didn't you get that with the Lois clone?<g>

Yep. And we got a still hot to trot, very disappointed, totally confused,
all to human Clark. Yech! That's why I rewrote it.

>>>Ah, okay. Still sounds boring to me in its inevitability and
>predictability.<<<

>Well it is a 'romance' and so a lot of time they're just going to be darn
nice
>to each other ;)

Where did I say they shouldn't be nice to each other?

>>>>You've made my point, thanks! Sheila's different take on the subject
makes
>her story memorable. All different takes interest me.<<<

>Actually I was hoping to make *my* point, that not all nfic is alike and
there
>is a variety out there<g>

It's the different ones that stand out. I find the bulk of them so far to be
practically interchangeable. I sense in them all that the author(s) had a
great deal of fun and I truly appreciate and applaud that. I still like
variety, as exemplified by Sheila, Gorn, and particularly Molly much better.

>Speaking of Sheila, I'll assume you haven't read
>her NC17 version of Mxysplit wherein we have Lois pleasuring, and being
>pleasured by Clark *and* Superman both at the same time (kersplash! ;)

Not yet. I really need a husband to take some of this Real Life burden off
my hands...

>>>>Does this mean you'd like me to find some samples of authors warning us
>that their story has no A plot?<<<

>No, what I'm saying is that strictly B plot fanfic has always been popular,
>not just in nfic.

I'm glad it's popular. It's just not real popular with me.

>>>>Uh-huh? And? Since the show was character driven (which is very nice
even
>when, IMO, they didn't get it right), why do so many nfics show such
>perfect, predictable people?<<<
>
>I don't write nfic, but I, like other 'non-fleshers' like to participate in
>nfic round robin because we know we can get away with a lot of double
entendre
>and innuendo that we normally couldn't get away with in regular fanfic, but
>still are limited to how far we are willing to go, and so it doesn't
entirely
>qualify as nfic, so we do appreciate the 'fleshers' out there who will
cross
>the line that we don't feel comfortable crossing ourselves.

Well, great! I'm glad you have fun writing those :)

>As far as 'predictable' all fanfic is predictable to a certain extend.  I'd
>say 99 percent of L&C fanfic has a happy ending regardless of the turmoil
>the couple might have to endure to get there.

It's the turmoil that makes, oh, 90% of the story for me.  If there's no
turmoil of some kind, then there may be no story worth telling. For example,
Lois preferred to cover bank robberies and government fraud, and give the
dog show stories to someone else.

>The other 1 percent have unhappy
>endings, ambiguous endings, or end with 'to be continued'  and writers can
be
>predictable too. If someone is known for writing stories that have heavy A
>plots and little B plot, or little to no romance, fans who are fond of that
>type of story will gravitate to that writer because he/she writes what they
>personally find interesting.   Others who like romance, or as little A plot
as
>possible, might avoid his/her stories for the same reason, they're
>predictable, but in a way that doesn't appeal to them.

All true.

>>>I yawn at (never "don't like") *predictable* nfic. I also appreciate any
>good writing that may be in the same story, particularly if it attempts an
>interesting A plot that otherwise gets the couple into the trite nfic
>portion. <<<
>
>Well, it's probably just me, but personally, I'd rather have something I
wrote
>be disliked rather than "yawned" at or called "trite"<g>  At least if
someone
>hated or disliked it, I'd have provoked an emotional response rather than
>boredom.

I won't argue with you about that. I encourage writers to tell the
thought-provoking stories :)

>>>Also, of course, if I disliked nfic, I would have never started
distributing
>ads for it a few years back. If I had started disliking it since that time,
>I would have bowed out of doing it.<<<
>
>That's likely where my confusion comes from.  When you first started
>distributing/advertising nfic, I wrote to you about one of the stories, and
>you said you didn't have an opinion on the story because even though you
were
>happy to distribute nfic, you didn't read it, and so I figured you'd only
>gotten into reading nfic recently and had only read a few, so I apologize
for
>the confusion.

Accepted. I can't imagine every saying I never read it because, for example,
I was on Gail's list and I'd read Gorn's work. It's true that currently I
have a
lot of backlogged fiction and nfiction to read (and lots of other stuff I've
downloaded off the net), but I'll get around to it eventually :)

>Zoomway@aol.com ("My girlfriend said, 'It's not the size that counts, it's
>what you do with it'. I said 'huh'? and then got on the phone with my
buddy,
>'Hey, Joe, she said size didn't matter, it's 'what you *do* with it' that
>counts.  Yeah!  me too, just forward and reverse. I don't get it." ;)

Okay.

I like the current advertising campaign for Godzilla: "Size *does* matter!"
Now I have to find time to see the movie! Maybe the weekend after next...
or maybe in July... No, the bosses go on vacation then... hmm... August?
Maybe...

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
anticipating more overtime
this month...
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:39:52 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby Stark <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Issue of N-Fic
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:56 PM 6/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>[megasnip] Are n-fic writers no
>longer sending their work to Debby's list?  I haven't noticed much in the
>pipeline lately and wondered if all the fic was going to the website.

I haven't had time to visit the website (someday I'll take a long vacation
and catch up with everything!) (then, of course, Mt. Popo will explode and
all the lights will go out and I'll have to read fanfic by candlelight...).

Lately it seems I've been getting stories from Joyce but no ads for them, or
ads but no story yet, *or* an ad for several stories at once but I've only
received one of the stories and I'm waiting for the others. I send out the
ads after I get the story(ies). So you can see my dilemna!

I'll recheck my mismatches again before I upload this explanation :)

Amendment: no change, and the stories I have received sans ad outnumber the
ads sans stories... oh, well :) soon, hot summer reading...!

then Anne C. wrote (in a message she inadvertantly sent to the list) re
Zoom's site...

>[snip] There are several short stories......I think it was the main
>reason Debby started her "boring nfic" thread.  I think Julie Mack has 25
>different ones.

I regret the juxtaposition here between my "boring" thread and Julie Mack's
stories! While I've named some of the authors I (and we all) like for their
long, complex stories, I haven't searched out the names of any of the other
nfanfic, so I have no idea if Julie's are boring or great or what.  With so
many under her belt, so to speak, I feel safe in saying that she must feel
great while writing and may well one of our most creative (definitely
prolific) writers. Congrats, Julie!

--who just recalls now that Julie participates with joyful abandon in the
IRC round robins, hmm? I think so :)

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
June 2, 1998
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:54:43 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Annette Ciotola <AMCiotola@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: once a month...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Do the words let it go and "private email" mean anything? These book legth
posts are getting rediculous!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:42:09 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Leanne Shawler <volterra@SD.ZNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Review of CJ Cherryh novel
In-Reply-To:  <01BD8E64.52E2A1E0@pppw72.htc.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Gary Wrote:
>
>>       TWO THUMBS DOWN, WAAAAY DOWN!

Brad wrote:
>
>I HATED THE BOOK!!! I was miserable reading it. I am not really in to the
>whole Superhero thing, I always have just liked the show for the Lois and
>Clark part. I thrive for drama, not disaster. The book was awful. And
>also, what cover are you talking about Gary. Mines paperback, and it is a
>golden shining "s". I want the good cover :)

OK, so I confess -- the cover was *totally*  misleading. Regardless, I
*loved* the novel. It was kinda season one flavoured -- and perhaps Cherryh
had been given instructions on writing it. I was fascinated by how she went
into the mechanics of Superman's flying and problem solving (something I
have not read *anywhere* else) and highlighting Lois' own bravery and
problem-solving skills -- which, instead of being used to think up a Clark
excuse, or get into even more trouble, or have a brain leak and
miraculously save the day ... it was done realistically, and I for one
appreciate a touch of realism in the L&C 'verse (of course, I'm incapable
of writing it (thinking of my "X&Y Equals", but that makes me appreciate it
even more). So, sure, there could've been some way of bringing the two
together to work together and so on ... but it worked very nicely as a
valid, alternate view on those days when L&C isn't "on the air" working
together.

I give it a B+ 'cause I couldn't put it down.

Leanne

Leanne Shawler aka Volterra on IRC (volterra@sd.znet.com)
Web Design: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/design/webdesign.html
Home Page: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/leanne.html
Midnight Dreaming: The Original Anthony Warlow Home Page:
http://www.zweb.com/volterra/anthony.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:53:52 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Review of CJ Cherryh novel
In-Reply-To:  <l03130306b19a6767402e@[207.167.64.10]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 06:42 PM 6/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I give it a B+ 'cause I couldn't put it down.
>
>Leanne
>
>
I couldn't put it down either...I kept telling myself:
"maybe Lois and Clark will talk to each other in the next chapter..."

Brief Summary of book:

Chapter 1: Intro/setting something happens in Metropolis and
something happens in other side of world

Chapters 2-one less than the last:
Lois is solving the story and getting nowhere and talking to
Lex for I don't know why. Superman helping the villagers on the
other side of the world.

Final Chapter: Events happens at such a rapid pace that I felt
like a idiot for reading the last several chapters...resolution
is accomplished and when Lois and Clark finally get together...
THE BOOK ENDS!!!!!!!!! And we thought the end of TOGOM was frustrating.

    "She just wanted Clark. That was all. Was it too much to ask of the
universe?"

This is a direct quote from the book. It was not a Lois and Clark novel.
It was a Lois Lane novel. It was a Clark Kent/Superman novel. It was
not a Lois AND Clark novel.

I'm not saying anyone can't like it. If you like it, fine. I'm honestly
happy for you. But the title and the cover (of the hard coverbook) was
completely misleading and dishonest.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
|  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson, TWYH  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:35:06 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Anne Carlson <ACdrift@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Issue of N-Fic
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi All,

I must apologize for my faux pas concerning the comment I made to Sandy
about
Julie Mack's nfic short stories. I really enjoy Julie's writing.  Whenever I
need a short  break from reality, I turn to one of her vignettes. I made a
mistake in sentence structure in my post.

As soon as I e-mailed my note and read on-line what I wrote, I realized what
I
had done.  First, I had unintentionally posted to the entire list.  And
next,
I had made such a rude remark.  I meant to say that there are a lot of nfics
on Zoom's site. I also wondered if the stort stories from that site, whose
plots were lighter than the epic nfics, could be the topic of Debby's
dilemma
with nfics in general.

In a message dated 98-06-02 21:40:22 EDT, Debby wrote about Julie Mack:

<<  With so many under her belt, so to speak, I feel safe in saying that she
must feel
 great while writing and may well one of our most creative (definitely
prolific) writers. Congrats, Julie! >>

I must agree with you here, Debby.  I feel terrible making such an
insentitive
remark.
Sorry.

Back to lurk mode,
Anne (ACdrift@aol.com)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:17:28 PDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Caroline Amberson <supersticky@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      old news rehashed
Content-Type: text/plain

Hey everybody, I was just wondering about (no, nothing nfic :) the 3rd
Soulmates Chronicles story.  I remember there being a small question
about it a little while ago but I don't seem to remember anyone telling
me where I can find it.  Could somebody please tell me if this issue was
ever resolved?  Also, I asked in an earlier email about when the last
time the main archive was updated because I've got some computer
problems but it was just a little sidenote and I don't think anyone even
noticed it.  If somebody could just tell me when the last update was,
please, then I would be eternally grateful.
Thanks for your time and responses!
     -Caroline Amberson  supersticky@hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:27:35 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: once a month...
Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>> Do the words let it go and "private email" mean anything? These book
legth
posts are getting rediculous! <<

Umm... I beg to differ, actually.  This list is supposed to be where
we discuss fanfic, and this discussion is clearly about fanfic, so... I
don't see any reason for them to take it to e-mail.

And, personally, I'd much rather read Debby & Zoom argue over fanfic than=

read 15 short posts (on LOISCLA) that are all variations on "I hate Mindy=
"
:-)

PJ
who still hasn't gotten around to doing that fanfic review...

!^NavFont02F01AA000FMGJHG5AMG5CHHAB6FD9
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Jun 1998 02:17:59 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kbrown@TOOLCITY.NET>
Subject:      Re: once a month... (not private email ;))
In-Reply-To:  <aa96ec53.3574ace4@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Do the words let it go and "private email" mean anything? These book legth
>posts are getting rediculous!

You know I love ya, Anne, but I have to disagree here.

I came back from a long weekend (congratulate me, everyone, we closed on
our house and I'm now a homeowner! :)) to 200 messages and it was this
thread, as well as a couple others, that kept me reading late into the
night when I should be sleeping.  I've enjoyed this thread.  It seems to be
winding down on its own, as all threads do, and I see no reason to take it
to private email before it meets its own natural demise.

Kathy (Let's all honor that little button in the upper right corner of our
keyboards labeled "Delete". ;))

______________________
Kathy Brown
kbrown@toolcity.net
<http://www.toolcity.net/~kbrown/>
KathyB on IRC
______________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Jun 1998 02:38:39 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kbrown@TOOLCITY.NET>
Subject:      Archive updates
In-Reply-To:  <19980601041439.28930.qmail@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>p.s.  Can anyone tell me the last time that the archive was updated?

According to my records (I don't have Netscape up at the moment, or else
I'd go check to be sure), we last updated the Archive on May 10 with 7 new
stories.

There are more stories in the pipe though, so don't think that either the
Fanfic Archive staff or the authors have forgotten you. :)  There should be
new stories up in the near future.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for visiting the
Archive, and for your patience as we keep it updated.  During the "school
year" (yes, I've been out of school for nearly a decade and still call it
that <g>), we tried to keep to a once a week schedule for updates, but it
will be difficult to keep up that pace over the summer months.

We all do this (by "we" I mean the Archive staff) in our spare time, while
dealing with our jobs, school work, families, etc.  In the summer, that
usually means vacations, final exams, kids home from school .. you get the
picture. :)  Various staff members have also recently had to deal with
computer problems, graduation, job hunting, moving out of state, as well as
their other on-line responsibilities (oh yeah, and those pesky friends and
families that seem to actually want *attention*!  Can you imagine??  The
nerve! <g>)

And so, I thank everyone for their continued patience as we balance keeping
the Archive updated with keeping a little sanity in our "real" lives. :)

Kathy (who's added 4000 miles to her cars in the last 4 weeks with still
more to come.  Buying a house 600 miles away is an experience. ;))

_________________________________
Kathy Brown
Editor-In-Chief
Lois & Clark Fanfic Archive
<http://www.ixpres.com/chrispat/lcfanfic>
kbrown@toolcity.net
KathyB on IRC
_________________________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:09:01 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: once a month... (not private email ;))
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 98-06-03 02:16:43 EDT, kbrown@TOOLCITY.NET writes:

<< I've enjoyed this thread.  It seems to be
 winding down on its own, as all threads do, and I see no reason to take it
 to private email before it meets its own natural demise. >>

I think it's winding down too, when Debby and I start agreeing more than
disagreeing, we've reached the wind-down<g>  It was fun though ;)

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:31:43 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Annette Ciotola <AMCiotola@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: once a month...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hey Guys (ya know I loves ya, too, but.....)

I agree that it was fun to begin with, even I jumped in there, however, it
is
to the point where it is taking forever and a day to download the emails.
And
right about now it does seem like going in circles.  I did not mean it as a
flame, but not everyone has time to sift through emails that is no more as
imformative as the one posted the hour before. (ok maybe I am a little
sarcastic there <g>)

Sorry, but that is *my* opinion.

Anne :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Jun 1998 04:38:11 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Grace Wong <lois1979@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Review of CJ Cherryh novel
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---"Gardners@htc.net" <gardners@HTC.NET> wrote:
>
> Gary Wrote:
>
> >       TWO THUMBS DOWN, WAAAAY DOWN!
> >
> >       The reason there are two thumbs is for the A-plot and the
B-plot.
> >The problem with this novel is that Lois and Clark spend virtually
no time
> >with one another in either plot. In fact other than the fact that
this is a
> >hard cover book, I thought I was reading another of M.J.Friedman's
> "young-adult"
> >novels where Lois and Clark also barely spend any time with each
other in
> any
> >capacity. <<<Snip, snip, and then snip some more>>>
> Now
> >don't get me wrong I wasn't miserable reading this book, but I have
an
> unquenchable
> >fire for Lois&Clark, heck I even liked the fanfic where they get
divorced.
> Of course
> >if you really want to buy the book for the cover then just read the
first
> and last
> >chapters and skip the rest. You won't miss much since the final
chapter
> has just about
> >everything significant happening and repeats what you already know,
and
> repeats what
> >you already know.
>
> I HATED THE BOOK!!! I was miserable reading it. I am not really in
to the whole Superhero thing, I always have just liked the show for
the Lois and Clark part. I thrive for drama, not disaster. The book
was awful. And also, what cover are you talking about Gary. Mines
paperback, and it is a golden shining "s". I want the good cover :)
Don't bother Brad, it's not worth it:)
I totally agree with you guys here, this book sucks!
and I didn't even got to finish it yet...now I probably don't ever
want to.
Grace
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:08:05 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Sheila Harper <sharper@CNCC.CC.CO.US>
Subject:      Re: The Issue of N-Fic
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:53 AM 6/1/98 PDT, Peace Everett wrote:
>For the record, I have to agree with Sandy on the subject of trying take
>a story that is nfic and make it... not.  Piper and I discussed the
possibility
>of a PG version of Healing, struggled with it, and eventually gave up.  Too
>much happens that is too critical to the story as a whole -- as Sandy said
>it would involve massive rewriting and would end up being a different
>story.

Considering that Peace wrote both R and NC-17 versions of her "My World
Divides and Shatters," I'm inclined to accept that she knows what she's
talking about.

That may also be why I got so many comments from the S5 staff about the
level of sensuality in "Faster Than a Speeding Bullet."  Just taking out the
specific descriptions of the sex still left it at an R level (as opposed to
NC-17).  Even after I cut everything I could and rewrote paragraphs to
indicate in more general terms what had made L or C react that way, my
editor still said it was PG-13.  I'd never have gotten it to G.

However, for most of my stories, the sexual relationship isn't the focus of
the story -- unlike several of the nfics that have been discussed -- so I
can do some cutting and minimal rewriting and make the stories work as PG.
I tend to think of my love scenes as painting a picture of L&C's
relationship, but the relationship has been demonstrated in other scenes, so
people who don't read the NC-17 version aren't missing the point I was
trying to make, just one of the various techniques I used to make it.

For example, in "A Shot in the Dark," I used two love scenes.  The first one
was to demonstrate that L&C's lovemaking was less about orgasms (which Lois
couldn't have at that point) than about pleasuring their beloved and using
sex as a physical expression of their love and caring.  It also gave me a
chance to point out that people with disabilities could still have
fulfilling sex lives, even if they never had another orgasm.  Some of that
came through in the PG version, since people who read it off the archive
wrote to comment on it, but it was clearer in the full version.  The second
scene was to show that Lois was back to normal physically.  While Clark's
continuous orgasm made the issue of simultaneous orgasms a moot point, I
also got a chance to indicate that human females were capable of a similar
response with a partner who was willing or able to help them (read the book
on ESO, if you have questions :).  Most of those ideas made it into the PG
version.

What I have a hard time deciding is what discussions are too adult in
nature.  My last scene in ASitD was a discussion of sexual positions, and I
included it in both the PG and NC-17 versions.  But I think I got away with
that because L&C were speaking in general terms.  I've always used that as
my guideline:  I can talk about anything in general terms; it's only when I
start getting specific that I have to start restricting my audience (ala
Beverly's scene in Sanctuary where Lois is realizing that some people would
pay anything to get some of Superman's sperm--hah! and didn't I make that
general and academic? :)

Interesting.  I haven't really written a story yet which focuses in large
part on L&C's sexual relationship ("Happy Birthday" doesn't count:  that was
a request fic vignette).  I'd do it, but I suspect I'd have a devil of a
time thinking of a story idea. <g>

Sheila
sharper@cncc.cc.co.us
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:01:27 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Layney Dixon <IndiBlue@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Review of CJ Cherryh novel
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message, FoLCs guided the cursor to write:

<<  TWO THUMBS DOWN, WAAAAY DOWN! >>
<< I HATED THE BOOK!!! I was miserable reading it.>>

Yeesh, talk about some strong opinions.  I, myself, read the book before I
knew about fanfic and found it wanting even then.  Still, it had some merit.
As a story, it gave a different rendition of how Clark feels about his job
as
Superman.  True, it made it seem like just another second job, but maybe
that
is how Clark feels about it sometimes...particularly, when he hasn't had
much
time to see his fiancee.

I agree that the hardback cover was misleading. I also disliked the fact
that
LnC only saw each other two or three times...that was frustrating, but they
can not be together all the time.

Besides giving us a different perspective about the Man of Steel, this book
showed Lois as a separate entity...not just as a driving force or partner
for
Superman/Clark Kent.  That aspect was refreshing.  After all, she was a
hard-
bitten, award-winning news hound before CK changed her sky from blue to
blue,
red and yellow.

Outside of all that, IMO, this book reflected the work of someone who is
most
likely not a FoLC.  I felt the same way about M.J. Friedman's work.  These
were people hired to do a job, not pour out their souls.  I read the book
with
that understanding...a grain of salt, if you will.

I don't think anyone should NOT read the book, just be aware that the
nuances
of the characters that many FoLC writers capture with passion is missing...
nuances that often make or break a story in folcdom.

Layney
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:47:44 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Hall, Melissa" <MHall05@SPRINTSPECTRUM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Review of CJ Cherryh novel
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

><<  TWO THUMBS DOWN, WAAAAY DOWN! >>
><< I HATED THE BOOK!!! I was miserable reading it.>>
>
>Yeesh, talk about some strong opinions.

No kidding...

>I, myself, read the book before I knew about fanfic and found it wanting
even
>then.  Still, it had some merit.
<snippage>
Outside of all that, IMO, this book reflected the work of someone who is
>most likely not a FoLC.  I felt the same way about M.J. Friedman's work.
>These were people hired to do a job, not pour out their souls.  I read the
>book with that understanding...a grain of salt, if you will.

I don't think anyone should NOT read the book, just be aware that the
>nuances of the characters that many FoLC writers capture with passion is
>missing... nuances that often make or break a story in folcdom.

I got the book before I'd seen more than half-a-dozen episodes, and
certainly before I knew of the existence of FoLCs. It was decent, yes,
but it lacked the spark that most fanfic has- the sense that the author
cares deeply for the characters, and has some emotional interest in how
they turn out.

I'm also not much of a fan of Ms. Cherryh. Her ideas in both sci-fi and
fantasy are intriguing, but I've never really gotten very interested in
any of her characters- they simply don't have the emotional depth I
expect in 'real' people.

Misha
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:03:42 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         goldengrove unleaving <kubitc@KENYON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Review of CJ Cherryh novel

<< I'm also not much of a fan of Ms. Cherryh. Her ideas in both sci-fi and
fantasy are intriguing, but I've never really gotten very interested in
any of her characters- they simply don't have the emotional depth I
expect in 'real' people. >>

It's funny that this book is being discussed on the list since I just
started
reading it. I also found Cherryh's writing to be lacking. Besides missing an
emotional component, I'm sure I've read better writing in fanfiction. I did
just start it, though, and will finish it since it does have to do with Lois
&
Clark, but it wasn't up to my expectations. I haven't reread Friedman's
books
in a while, but I remember having liked them more after the first read than
I
am currently liking Cherryh's.

-Christy
 kubitc@kenyon.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:17:42 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: The Issue of N-Fic
In-Reply-To:  <199806031708.LAA11753@sage.cncc.cc.co.us>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:08 AM 6/3/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Interesting.  I haven't really written a story yet which focuses in large
>part on L&C's sexual relationship ("Happy Birthday" doesn't count:  that
was
>a request fic vignette).  I'd do it, but I suspect I'd have a devil of a
>time thinking of a story idea. <g>
>

All you have to do is ask....

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
|  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson, TWYH  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:48:33 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Sandra McDermin <SMcDermi@NAS.EDU>
Subject:      The Issue of N-Fic & Roundrobins
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Gary said, regarding double entendres and "the Issue of N-fic"
>>I suppose pointing out the d-e in the Subject line would be too
much....<<

You know, I *just* got this comment.  Boy, there are *definitely* flies on
me.

Debby said:
>>Lately it seems I've been getting stories from Joyce but no ads for them,
or ads but no story yet, *or* an ad for several stories at once but I've
only received one of the stories and I'm waiting for the others. I send out
the ads after I get the story(ies). So you can see my dilemna! I'll recheck
my mismatches again before I upload this explanation :)  Amendment: no
change, and the stories I have received sans ad outnumber the ads sans
stories... oh, well :)<<

Ah ... that would explain it.  I'm not on the automatic send list anymore
so the only way I know what's being written is through the ads.  Hey,
people, write some ads, will ya!?

Anne said:
>>Zoom started