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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:12:02 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Ideas

In a message dated 97-09-21 19:38:08 EDT, jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM writes:

<< I immediately thought of
 Zoomway's "If you can't beat 'em (Joe's Story)" and "Join 'em" by Kari
 Umbrect??  I still don't like the original (sorry, Zoomway! <g>) but the
 sequel is very nice, and fits nicely with the original.
  >>

Hey, I caught hell for that story<g> I told Joe it would happen, but he was
willing to take any heat for the story, and I said "Okay, it's your baby",
but I don't regret writing it even though it made some readers uncomfortable
(okay, with Leigh I got a 14 page scolding ;) I followed his outline to the
letter and never asked to change one thing he wanted, I just wrote what he
asked of me, and since he was happy, I guess the reaming I got over it was
'almost' worth it<g>  I got positive and negative feedback on the story, but
this, from part of Leigh Raglan's 14 page scolding was the much more typical
response. "This is wrong! There is no way, shape or form that would cause
Clark Kent to live a lie and a sexual relationship with Lois Lane as
Superman!"

I agree with Leigh on this, but reminded her that it was a story I was
writing for someone else and to his specifications. She wrote back and told
me I should have just refused, but there are fanfic readers out there that
do
have ideas, but they either haven't the time, or say they haven't the talent
for writing, but would love to see an idea of theirs turned into fanfic, and
I try and accommodate requests like that when I can. Most aren't nearly as
specific as Joe. Angie, for example, wanted to see the date Lois and Clark
made at the end of Individual Responsibility that we never saw on the
screen.
Her only request? That it take place in an Indian restaurant. So, I was
pretty much on my own with how I wanted to handle that story (12:01) Or,
Becky had just bought some Superman bubble bath and said she'd like to have
a
story involving a bubble bath, and so I wrote Dirty Bubbles. Some stopped
reading that short story after the first paragraph indicated Lois was
married
to Lex Luthor<g>

It's not always easy writing a story to another person's expectations (hey,
didn't L&C discusss expectations ;) but if they're happy with the end
result,
that's what makes it worth the shots when it's finished. I always send it to
them first so that if there's anything they want changed, or done
differently, I'm happy to oblige, it's their story and they deserve to have
it say what they want in the way they want it said. There's two exceptions
to
the "on request" fanfic I'm willing to write. I won't write any story where
Lois or Clark cheats on the other, nor will I write "death fic". I don't
like
either type and so I'd find it fairly impossible to write either type<g>  I
sometimes forget the older fanfic I've written if it was written for someone
else, and Joe's story was written back in 94 before Metallo even aired. I do
believe though when a reader gets upset by a story if they think it goes
contrary to the characters that the show established, that the series did a
great job creating a universe and characters that are so well understood by
the fans that said fans get upset if they feel that universe is upended.

I personally don't think I have a problem with almost any type of fanfic
(other than the cheating or death fic type) I like funny stuff, romantic
stuff, and stuff that has a surprise or a twist to it. I don't like stories
that ramble a lot (incluiding mine ;) with a zillion words of exposition. I
think it was Moby Dick that did me in for that. I mean three pages
describing
the man's hat for crying out loud!<g> I like stream of consciousness type
writing if very well done, if not, it's about as rewarding and filling as a
rice cake<g> There is some fanfic that would make a horrible episode for the
series, but is still great to read. It's like Stranger in a Strange Land. I
think that would make a gosh awful movie, too much is in your head, but it's
a mesmerizing novel to read if you like that kind of story. Most of the
fiction I read, as you can probably tell, is science fiction and some
fantasy. I have never read a romance novel of any type, or a western, or a
James Bond type of intrigue/adventure novel. I think that's what I'd be
interested in hearing on the fanfic list. What do the readers and writers
read when they get an honest-to-goodness published novel? I'm curious truly
because I remember in high school our English class had the choice of
Fahrenheit 451, A Separate Peace and To Kill a Mocking Bird. I was the only
female in the class to choose Fahrenheit 451 so I begin to wonder if I'm an
anomaly among others of my gender<g> Anyway, I'd really be interested in
favorite novels, authors, genres, etc.

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:41:12 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Demona <demona@WIZNET.CA>
Subject:      Re: Ideas
In-Reply-To:  <970922011200_1730482812@emout08.mail.aol.com>
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At 01:12 AM 9/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I won't write any story where
>Lois or Clark cheats on the other, nor will I write "death fic".

Nor will she write fic that I've been bugging her to write for months <eg>
LOL

Hi everyone! Yes I'm still alive!! Remember me? :)  That reminds me of one
of your other stories Squidgy, what was it called again? The one with IRC
and Rapunzel? <g> I know I asked for a sequel to that but I'm sure it's
about as done as our co-compilation, or the one I'm doing with KathyB, or
the other two I have started here, so I'm REALLY one to talk huh? <g>

*sigh* I absolultely need to take a few days off and write ;)  That would
be yummy!

Demi (Who still absolutely loves Chris' Mulder's "meet me in kansas city" ;)

_________________________________________________

               Demi (a.k.a) Demona
       <Demi@wiznet.ca> or <Demi22@aol.com>
           http://www.wiznet.ca/~demona
                      ---
                    L&C Site
      http://www.netforward.com/cryogen/?LNC
                      ---
         "Never underestimate the power of
             a star filled sky on a warm
                  tropical night"
         - Perry White a la Zoomway <eg>
_________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 05:15:34 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Looking for Lois Lane

In a message dated 97-09-21 21:20:26 EDT, debby@SWCP.COM writes:

<< Jack, being of a cunning intelligence and knowing Clark's big secret, as
well
 as being Clark's friend, would figure out ways to help Superman get done
with
 the job quicker. Or, "support Clark's Superman side," if you wish. Knowing
 Superman's proclivity for falling into traps, Jack would think of ways to
help
 him avoid them. >>

To quote alternate Clark "This is exactly what I was afraid of"<g> That
sounds awfully close to Batman and his boy companion Robin ;) I was glad
Jack
vanished.

>>>Some argue that he hadn't had a steady relationship before, and this may
be the
case<<<

"Flying is a piece of cake. I've been doing it since high school. What
happens if I screw up? I lose a little altitude, but being in a
relationship,
that's completely new..."  So, yes, that was the case. He never had a
relationship by his own admission.

>>>However, I don't think this translates into the relationship he wants
being
hard to maintain. If he had not yet had such a relationship of his own,
let's
look at the most influenial relationship he experienced through observation,
that of Martha and Jonathan<<<<

How much worth was his parents as examples when it came to a courtship?
Clark
didn't know what his parents dating history was like. If anything, I think
Clark's idealized vision of his parents relationship sometimes caused some
unrealistic expectations for him.. He wanted instant 'happily ever after',
but because he only saw the "after" with his parents, he had absolutely no
clue what they went through to achieve that.

>>>Clark could have solve that by simply telling Lois the truth<<<

Telling Lois the truth only solved part of the problem (his dashing off
appearing to be a fear of commitment, etc) but it still didn't give him
relationship skills, and no matter how good an example Jon and Martha were,
Jon was never two people who had to balance a job, being a superhero and a
marriage. Martha didn't have to adjust to something like that either. Lois
and Clark were on their on with that scenario.

>>blundered into his relationship
with Lois Lane and came out looking like a heavily stressed chunk of
granite<<<

I enjoyed their "blunders". It made their bliss all the more well earned ;)

>>hen, seeing that his mind was made up and that he was going to make his
announcement the next day, Lois rushed out to find a better solution. Which,
of course, she did. Hooray, Lois<<<

I think ultimately the decision has to be Clark's. I know it's supposed to
be
50/50 in a marriage,. but there are some points where one partner has the
ultimate decision to make and stand by. If a wife doesn't want any more
children, but the husband does, I say ultimately *she* makes the decision
because she is the one who has to endure the pregnancy. Now, if both men and
women could get pregnant, that would be different. The wife could say,
"Okay,
you want another baby? It's your turn to get pregnant."

Lois had a great deal to do with the creation and the maintainance of
"Superman", but when push comes to shove, Clark is the one all alone out
there having to make the decisions by himself, often in a split second. Jon
and Martha made great points about Lois and Clark losing their privacy and
Lois being known from there on out as "Superman's wife", but Lois accepts
what might befall her and Clark if the truth comes out, what she *can't*
accept is what happens to Superman if the truth comes out. She's trying to
let Clark know that the truth could be as bad or worse for "Superman" as the
scandal. Superman's "fate" can be discussed and argued by all parties who
might be effected by "the truth", but ultimately the decision can't be made
by committee, it is up to one person--Clark Kent.

>>It took her most of the episode to say this, too. Yawn.<<<

Having been married 16 years, I can tell you that it takes a lot longer than
"most of the episode" sometimes to tell your husband what's upsetting you.
This phrase, "Well, if you don't know what's wrong, I'm certainly not going
to tell you" didn't become a cliche from lack of use<g> I know it seems
ludircrous to people who aren't married, but it is so close to the truth
it's
scary. You feel that your spouse should *know* what made you upset, and if
he
doensn't automatically know, then he doesn't care about your feelings<g>
Like
I said, it probably sounds silly to someone who isn't married, but someone
who *is* married could see a lot of theirself in Lois "suffering in silence"
waiting for lunkhead to pick up the signal ;) One reason Lois drew the whole
thing out is because she thought Clark knew about his molecular structure
"stablizing and slowing" the aging process and she was angry he never told
her.

>>>He could also, of course, *die* the next day, anyone can, but
particularly
a
fellow who throws himself into battling dangerous criminals.<<<

That's also true, and Clark makes that point.

>>>That's not what was said, that much I recall. His body had already
compensated.
It had made up the difference, he had revitalized, he was the same as
before.<<<

Well, here's the dialog, make of it what you will, but to me it sounds like
Clark did "lose something".

"Dr. Klein said my body has already compensated for the age drain."
"Compensated? Then you have lost something."
"My friend is healthy. I'm sitting here with my wife. I haven't lost
anything."
"You gave up years."
"I gave them up for a friend."
"How many?"
"I don't know. The truth is, no one knows how long they've got. Anyway, it's
not the years that count, it's the moments. Right now, as they happen."

You'll recall right after Superman came out of the machine (after resetting
Carter Shank to infancy and Jimmy back to a 22 year old) he said "I feel
okay"  Lois asks Doodsen "Is he?" and she says "It's too soon to tell"
 Remember that Jimmy looked fine right after he came out of the machine and
the rapid aging took a while to start. Superman looked fine right when he
came out, but because of his long lifespan, then even the 100+ years it cost
him to restore Shank (over restore him ;) and Jimmy was something his body
could "compensate" (counterbalance).

That is, suppose you have a 50 year old man (want one? ;) and you age him
five years. It's not likely that it'll make that big a difference in his
appearance. However, if you take an infant and age *him* five years, the
difference is startling. What I'm getting at is say that Superman's lifespan
was 200 years, but then you take about 130 from that (to restore Shank and
Jimmy) and his lifespan now becomes 70 years. In other words, Superman still
had 70 years left to him, and so the "drain" wouldn't show on him. Whereas,
you take Jimmy, whose lifespan is about 70 to begin with and take 50 years
of
that away from him, then he has no "years" left to compensate the loss. He's
going to be an old man. I don't know if any of that made any sense, but Lois
and Clark's dialog seems to indicate Clark did in fact lose years.

>>>That's my very point. I certainly expect them to *try*, on the ceiling,
on
the kitchen floor, or wherever they wanted, and have lots of fun at it! But
to go
into the marriage assuming they could have kids<<<

Before they got married, Lois was in the alternate world and Wells helped
her
recall their previous adventure, and in that adventure Wells tells Lois that
Superman's descendants create Utopia. Wells also assures her that she "will
be" good at handling babies. Then if we go back to The Foundling, perhaps
Clark read too much into Jor-El saying that Earth was chosen because of its
compatability with Krypton and its people. Either way, even human couples
assume they can have children until they start trying and nothing happens.

>>>I suspect that he did know. I wouldn't expect Clark
to rat on Lois because I would expect Perry to already know about it.<<<

Okay, let's assume that for whatever reason not indicated in the episode,
Perry knew Lois stole the story and so *he* sent her on that wild goose
chase
through the sewage reclamation plant. A lot of the impact is immediately
lost. With Perry having administered the comeuppance, then there is no new
found respect for Clark from Lois for standing up to her, and Jimmy, who
stood up to Perry being inspired by CK, would be lost as well. What we get
instead is Lois being drubbed by her boss. So what? That just dilutes Lois's
"punishment" to a sight gag with no real importance or impact.  Then again,
Perry might take a more professional route to a comeuppance and suspend her
2
weeks without pay. It says the same thing the other scenario would say "the
boss won't tolerate stealing" and since the "goose chase" scene loses its
impact anyway when administered by Perry, then it might as well be a more
standard punishment for misconduct.

>>>Clark, sitting quietly at his desk, speaking from the heart, looking
right at Lois (note that the newsroom is nearly empty). "Lois, I don't
appreciate you stealing other people's stories."<<<

Even if a more subdued scene had been feasible for the Lois of Neverending
Battle fame, all we'd get really is an apology from her, and it still ices
out Jimmy's part. I think the show handled it well and with good humor, and
Lois knew she had it coming and learned a lesson about underestimating Clark
Kent when he's the victim of story stealing ;) In fairness though, if you
want to rewrite NB, that's okay, as long as I get to rewrite IGACOY ;)

>>>Well, we know where to go to find out what CK's idle fantasies are...
;)<<<

Are these sexual or non-sexual? ;)

Zoomway@aol.com (what the heck, it's 4:00a.m., the gutter's open ;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 05:44:03 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Ideas

In a message dated 97-09-22 01:40:42 EDT, demona@WIZNET.CA writes:

<< Nor will she write fic that I've been bugging her to write for months
<eg>
 LOL >>

Demi, did Rachel put you up to this? Or "Penny Irksome" as I like to call
her
;) I am working on that sequel you wanted to Cyber Link, Penny's undercover
story (and that Seinfeld script ;) that nfic we're collaberating on
(remember
that one? ;) and a story just for me :P

Zoomway@aol.com (and that writing stuff I do for money. I love a panicky
network season, it's good for business ;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:16:46 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Kathy Brown <kbrown@TOOLCITY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Reading (was Ideas)
In-Reply-To:  <970922011200_1730482812@emout08.mail.aol.com>
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At 1:12 AM -0400 9/22/97, The Zoomway wrote:

> I think that's what I'd be
>interested in hearing on the fanfic list. What do the readers and writers
>read when they get an honest-to-goodness published novel?
> Anyway, I'd really be interested in favorite novels, authors, genres, etc.

LOL!  You mean other FoLCs have time to ... gasp ... read???

Let's see, what do I read?  Fanfic, List mail, Fanfic list mail ;) ...
sense a theme? <bg>

I read some magazines and the newspaper, but I can't remember the last time
I picked up a book ... this is kind of embarassing.

Oh! I just remembered. The last book I read was the Cherryh novel. ;)

Kathy (actually, I read several books a day. They just have characters like
Corduroy or Clifford as the protagonists or are written by Dr. Suess. <bg>)

______________________
Kathy Brown
kbrown@toolcity.net
<http://www.toolcity.net/~kbrown/>
KathyB on IRC
______________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:50:52 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reading (was Ideas)
In-Reply-To:  <l03010d00b04c38c9f09f@[208.0.188.113]>
MIME-version: 1.0
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At 11:16 AM 9/22/97 -0400, Kathy Brown wrote:
>At 1:12 AM -0400 9/22/97, The Zoomway wrote:
>
>> I think that's what I'd be
>>interested in hearing on the fanfic list. What do the readers and writers
>>read when they get an honest-to-goodness published novel?
>> Anyway, I'd really be interested in favorite novels, authors, genres,
etc.
>
>
>LOL!  You mean other FoLCs have time to ... gasp ... read???
>
>Let's see, what do I read?  Fanfic, List mail, Fanfic list mail ;) ...
>sense a theme? <bg>
>
>
I'm reading "The NEW Male Sexuality - The Truth About Men, Sex, and
Pleasure" by
Bernie Zilbergeld, Ph.D. Author of Male Sexuality.

And if you ask real nice I'll send the title of Chapter 2 to Debby for the
nfic list...

;)

P.S. Of course, technically, it is just nfic research...

P.P.S. I need a hug! I never had a teddy bear, but I did have a Super
Grover!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
|  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson, TWYH  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:21:50 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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Comments:     RFC822 error: <W> Incorrect or incomplete address field found
and
              ignored.
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Ideas
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Kathy wrote:

>> Like the WHAM is OK as long as we get a satisfying WAFF at the end.  <=
<

Or as Peace might put it, we don't mind the hurt as long as there's plent=
y
of comfort <g>  It also tends to be true that the bigger the WHAM, the
bigger the WAFF, but it's not guaranteed.

Anyway, in general, I think that it's not the idea that matters so much a=
s
the application of that idea.  You can take one basic idea (Lois finds ou=
t
CK=3DSM) and create infinite variations on that theme... there are good a=
nd
bad revelation stories, but you can't say that the authors ripped each
other off.  I know I've written different takes on the same idea, and I
don't *think* the resulting stories are repetitive.

PJ

!^NavFont02F02310018MGHHGSMGUHG42MG44HGD9HIy0631

  E-mail from: Pam Jernigan, 22-Sep-1997
  jernigan@compuserve.com / ChiefPam on the IRC
~~~~~
Unreformed, unrepentent, sometimes unproductive but never uninteresting
<g> fanfic writer =

Visit Sarah & Pam's Shrine o'Fanfic at:
 http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/2501
~~~~~
Lois and Clark Season 5 Fanfic:
     http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/mothership/60/season5.htm
~~~~~
"The first thing she said to me was 'Herbie, get me to the Planet.'
 Naturally, I wondered which planet..."
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:50:10 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Adrienne Perez <perezas@XTRABOX.COM>
Subject:      Re: Ideas
In-Reply-To:  <970922011200_1730482812@emout08.mail.aol.com>
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At 01:12 AM 9/22/97 -0400, you wrote: (Zoomway)
>In a message dated 97-09-21 19:38:08 EDT, jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM writes:
> Most of the
>fiction I read, as you can probably tell, is science fiction and some
>fantasy. I have never read a romance novel of any type, or a western, or a
>James Bond type of intrigue/adventure novel. I think that's what I'd be
>interested in hearing on the fanfic list. What do the readers and writers
>read when they get an honest-to-goodness published novel? I'm curious truly
>because I remember in high school our English class had the choice of
>Fahrenheit 451, A Separate Peace and To Kill a Mocking Bird. I was the only
>female in the class to choose Fahrenheit 451 so I begin to wonder if I'm an
>anomaly among others of my gender<g> Anyway, I'd really be interested in
>favorite novels, authors, genres, etc.
>
>Zoomway@aol.com

Great question!  I read novels to escape and relax so I really don't want
to work too hard <g>. So, artsy and highly stylized books don't do it for
me.  Neither do books with a lot of made up words or written in a dialect
(I hated the Hobbitt and couldn't even finish The Lord of the Rings)
Instead I like books rich in character and setting.  To Kill a Mocking Bird
is one of my favorites.  I read very little science fiction but for some
reason I've become attached to the Star Wars Books.  I'm almost embarassed
to buy them :). I love to read books that are set in an industry or culture
I'm not familiar with.  As a kid I used to like Arthur Hailey's books like
Airport or Wheels.  Chaim Potok's books describing Orthodox and Hasidic
cultures and characters are long time favorites.  When I find an author I
like I tend to get "stuck" and then compulsively hunt down and read most of
the author's works.  In the last couple of years I've read most of the
Jonathan Kellerman's Alex Delaware Murder Mysteries.  My favorite author is
Madeleine L'Engle.  I have literally been reading and re-reading her books
since childhood.  She writes children's and adult fiction...nonfiction too.
 Her best known children's book is a Winkle in Time which is part one of a
time travel trilogy.  BTW anyone really into time travel should read "Time
and Again" by Jack Finney.  No complicated machines, just mind power.

Well, this is most likely more information than you all wanted to know
about me<g>

Fun question, Zoom!

Adrienne
perezas@xtrabox.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:40:39 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Barbara Garonzik <Bsg2351@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading (was Ideas)

In a message dated 97-09-22 11:49:39 EDT, gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU writes:

<< I'm reading "The NEW Male Sexuality - The Truth About Men, Sex, and
 Pleasure" by
 Bernie Zilbergeld, Ph.D. Author of Male Sexuality. >>

I'm not reading anything so cerebral.  Just finished Shirley Busbee's novel
"A Heart for the Taking."  Loved it.

Barb
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:48:47 CST
Reply-To:     jonesk@ur.msstate.edu
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kay Fike Jones <jonesk@UR.MSSTATE.EDU>
Organization: Mississippi State University
Subject:      Re: Reading (was Ideas)
In-Reply-To:  <970922133933_420075585@emout07.mail.aol.com>

Not much time for reading books anymore, but I did manage to fit one
in about a month ago. It was a Tony Hillerman mystery. Can't
remember the name of the specific book but his are always good.

Kay II

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kay Fike Jones                                        jonesk@ur.msstate.edu
News Writer
Mississippi State University, USA
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:14:19 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Laurie Stroh <LStroh1856@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading (was Ideas)

In a message dated 97-09-22 11:15:34 EDT, you write:

<< Kathy (actually, I read several books a day. They just have characters
like
 Corduroy or Clifford as the protagonists or are written by Dr. Suess. <bg>)

LOL Kathy we must lead the same life<g>.....other than L&C fanfic and the
listserv (both of them) and the WB and ABC L&C boards(I'm on AOL)  and an
occasional newspaper or magazine (like USA TODAY or  People or Country
Weekly<G>) the only books I get to read are geared for rugrats.  Last night
it was "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas"...don't ask me I didn't pick it<g>.
I did actually read a real book last week and bragged to my hubby that I
read
a book that had absolutely nothing to do with Lois and Clark...."See honey,
I
do have a life!"
But you know what?  The book was OK and all but I have read fanfic that was
tons better and I had a very hard time not thinking of Lois and Clark while
reading the book.  I kept picturing Teri and Dean as the protaganists......I
guess I'm just spoiled!!

Laurie
LStroh1856@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 15:46:02 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Laurie Stroh <LStroh1856@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Reading

In a message dated 97-09-22 01:12:43 EDT, Zoomway writes:

<< What do the readers and writers
 read when they get an honest-to-goodness published novel? I'm curious truly
 because I remember in high school our English class had the choice of
 Fahrenheit 451, A Separate Peace and To Kill a Mocking Bird. I was the only
 female in the class to choose Fahrenheit 451 so I begin to wonder if I'm an
 anomaly among others of my gender<g> Anyway, I'd really be interested in
 favorite novels, authors, genres, etc. >>

It's funny that you should mention "To Kill a Mockingbird" for that is one
of
my all time favorite books......if you've never taken the time to read it
you
should.  It's not very long but oh so good and much better than the movie
(which I enjoyed as well).
Another favorite book of mine was "The Thorn Birds" even though she did
spend
a lot of time describing the Australian landscape.......

Since going online last year and hooking up with all you wonderful *folcs*
my
reading of actual published material has dwindled to about nil.........but
authors that I have enjoyed reading include Michael Palmer (he writes
medical
thrillers), John Grisham (if you don't know who he is you're really out of
it), Judith Michael (a husband-wife writing team that write contemporary
romance type novels) and Janet Daily (prior to discovering she is a
plagerist!).

To the person on the list that mentioned the children's book "A Wrinkle in
Time" I just want to say that that was one of my favorite books as a
kid......one that not a lot of people seemed to have read but one that I
will
always remember.

Laurie
LStroh1856@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:42:02 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Sara Kraft <tmax@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading (was Ideas)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>At 1:12 AM -0400 9/22/97, The Zoomway wrote:
>
>> I think that's what I'd be
>>interested in hearing on the fanfic list. What do the readers and writers
>>read when they get an honest-to-goodness published novel?
>> Anyway, I'd really be interested in favorite novels, authors, genres,
etc.

Before I discovered fanfic, I liked (and still do, just don't have the time
to read) reading Dean Koontz novels (horror/suspense).  Now I read fanfic,
fanfic and well...fanfic.  But actually, I did pick up the Roger Stern novel
"The Death and Life of Superman" and have started reading it.  (I didn't
realize at the time but I was wearing my 'S' shirt when I bought it.  No
wonder I got funny looks.  Doh!).

>LOL!  You mean other FoLCs have time to ... gasp ... read???

No, not really.  =)

>Let's see, what do I read?  Fanfic, List mail, Fanfic list mail ;) ...
>sense a theme? <bg>

Exactly! <g>

>Oh! I just remembered. The last book I read was the Cherryh novel. ;)

I liked that one.  That's one of the last books I read too.  Unless you
count school mandated reading. =p

Sara Kraft (tmax@azstarnet.com)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 16:31:09 -0400
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From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reading (was Ideas)
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.16.19970922115052.4a8f576c@vmspop.isc.rit.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
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>>At 1:12 AM -0400 9/22/97, The Zoomway wrote:
>>
>>> I think that's what I'd be
>>>interested in hearing on the fanfic list. What do the readers and writers
>>>read when they get an honest-to-goodness published novel?
>>> Anyway, I'd really be interested in favorite novels, authors, genres,
etc.
>>
Okay, my all-time favorite is The Count of Monte Cristo  by Dumas,
Alexandre, 1802-1870
       The Count of Monte Cristo or the adventures of Edmond Dantes,

which was so much better than Tale of Two Cities...anyone else read both?

(Both are historical novels set against the backdrop of the French
Revolution - i.e.
"Let them eat cake.")

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
|  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson, TWYH  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 06:59:47 +1000
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Jenny Stosser <jenerate@OZRAMP.NET.AU>
Subject:      Reading (was Re: Ideas)
In-Reply-To:  <970922011200_1730482812@emout08.mail.aol.com>
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At 01:12 AM 22/09/97 -0400, Zoomway wrote:
> There is some fanfic that would make a horrible episode for the
>series, but is still great to read.

My sister in law, who is NOT a reader of anything much except the Tabloid
magazines (makes me wonder why I buy my own Woman's Day each week,
sometimes) just finished reading my L&C fanfic and wanted everyone here to
know that she thinks I should submit it to TNT as the basis for the
telemovie that they should make of it one day. <G>  My mother also thinks I
should submit it to Warner Bros, or DC Comics.  But she hasn't read it.  I
think the last thing my mother read was the newspaper. <G>  (/me wonders
why she is related to so many non-readers, when she has at least two walls
full of books which she will read over and over again, as well as two
filing cabinets full of comics!)

>It's like Stranger in a Strange Land. I
>think that would make a gosh awful movie, too much is in your head, but
it's
>a mesmerizing novel to read if you like that kind of story.

Zoom, this is weird.  I love almost everything Heinlein's written, but I
couldn't stand SIASL when I first read it about 15 years ago.  My favourite
by him would have to be Time Enough For Love, I think.

>Most of the fiction I read, as you can probably tell, is science fiction
and some
>fantasy. I have never read a romance novel of any type, or a western, or a
>James Bond type of intrigue/adventure novel. I think that's what I'd be
>interested in hearing on the fanfic list. What do the readers and writers
>read when they get an honest-to-goodness published novel?

I tend to stay within the SF/Fantasy range when I'm reading books most of
the time too.  The *first* fantasy book I read was called The Broken Sword,
and it was by Poul Anderson.  I don't remember a thing about it, but I
remember Dad choosing it out of his bookcase as one I was old enough to
enjoy when I was twelve.  I get the impression I'd been bugging him to let
me read one of his books for a while before that.  Oh, and before that, my
all-time favourite books were the Krunkles of Narnia (I couldn't say
Chronicles at the time).  I still pull them out and reread them on occasion.

At the moment I'm working my way through Anne McCaffrey's Pern books again
(in no particular order).  In recent weeks I've read DragonFlight,
DragonQuest DragonsDawn, and now I'm halfway through Red Star Rising
(released in the US as DragonsEye, I believe).  These are probably my
favourite books of all time these days (am I allowed to change my choice
when I say "of all time?" <g>) - some years ago, I had 15 books signed by
the author, and now I'm debating whether I should replace my copy of
Dragonquest, which is literally falling apart at the seams!

Other authors I enjoy include Misty Lackey (in particular her Valdemar
series), Melanie Rawn, Katherine Kerr, David Eddings... hmmm, I've just
noticed that most of my favourite authors tend to write in series!  I
wonder why that is?  I also enjoy Isaac Asimov's junior adult stuff, Robert
Silverberg's time travel stories,

Oh, and when my parents moved out of the house I grew up in to a smaller
place, I inherited Dad's collection of Analog magazines, which at the time
was an almost complete run going back to December 1959.  I managed to fill
in the missing pieces via the Internet, so it now IS a complete collection.
 One day I might even get to sit down and read them all!

Oh, yeah, I also collect comics.  Have done since at least 1978 (that's the
cover date on the first DC Comic I ever bought, but before that I was
buying Australian black and white reprints with no date inside them), and
as I said before I have two filing cabinets full of them now.

I also read Woman's Day almost every week, and pick up the occasional other
tabloid magazine.  It's a nasty habit, but it's one of the few vices I have
that actually costs money, so who cares!?

I'm curious truly
>because I remember in high school our English class had the choice of
>Fahrenheit 451, A Separate Peace and To Kill a Mocking Bird. I was the only
>female in the class to choose Fahrenheit 451 so I begin to wonder if I'm an
>anomaly among others of my gender<g> Anyway, I'd really be interested in
>favorite novels, authors, genres, etc.

I would have chosen the Bradbury book too, but only cos I've seen the movie
of TKAMB and I've never heard of ASP.  <g>

Oh yeah, Kathy mentioned that she reads a lot of Dr Seuss... I read quite a
bit of the same "Ernie's BedTime story" and "Thomas and the... <whatever>
by Buzz Books".  David has been helping me to get through the really hard
words in those ones <BG>
--
Jenny Stosser -*- jenerate@ozramp.net.au -*- (Jenerator or MoiAussie on IRC)
This message is umop ap!sdn -*- David is 5 and Megan is 2! Photos on the
web-page!
Visit the Stosser Family HomePage: http://www.ozramp.net.au/~jenerate
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:14:32 +0000
Reply-To:     dom-mel@dial.pipex.com
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Dom Melaragni <dom-mel@DIAL.PIPEX.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading (was Re: Ideas)
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19970923065947.0069d944@mail.ozramp.net.au>
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I read way too much......at least I used to.......for a while though
I read a lot more fanfic than ordinary books.  Now that I'm commuting
again though, I've started picking up a lot of books again.

I tend to read just about everything.......the author I have most of
is Anne McCaffrey and probably Asimov but I hadn't read many of them
in a while.......

Favourite things lately have been Bill Bryson's Made in America and
Tales of a Small Island and my current book, Maupins Tales from the
City.

And of course, who could forget the *fascinating* book I bought in
Seattle and left there......had to buy another one to find out waht
happened......Nadia the werewolf with interesting tendencies.....the
UKers took to reading it as a bedtime story <g>  There was lots of
barbaric longing <beg>

Dom (wondering what to take off her shelf next ......or whether to
look in the box of the last 3 year's comics......I did like that
SUperman/WonderWOman....Whom Gods Destroy series)
=================================================================
Dom Melaragni (FlakeyDom)   The LnC drinking game and Fest pics
                        http://ds.dial.pipex.com/dom-mel/index.htm

?8-)] Clark Kent smiley with the superhero squarejaw chin
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 20:46:04 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         "Georgia E. Walden" <GWalden@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading

In a message dated 97-09-22 15:48:37 EDT, Laurie writes:

<< Since going online last year and hooking up with all you wonderful
*folcs*
my
 reading of actual published material has dwindled to about nil.... >>

Whew - that's a relief. I thought I was the only one who had become a
non-reader since getting involved with online fandom. <g>  My job requires I
keep up with the rugrat literature (elementary school librarian) <g>  but
for
myself, there's nothing that interests me quite as much as Lois and Clark.
I
read for pleasure and right now, I get more pleasure from the various
mailing
lists than anything else.

Before, though, I read constantly and skipped around: science fiction,
fantasy, romance both historical and contemporary, mysteries, and the
occasional thriller.  I also like non-fiction - politics, linguistics,
science, popular culture. I once read A HIstory of Warfare by John Keegan
back to back with Desire by Amanda Quick and enjoyed them both.<g>

My most recent "real" book was A Writer's Journey by Christopher Vogler.  It
was recommended by someone on LOISCLA. ;)

Georgia  (guess I'd better try to track down Rag and Bone - I'm not an Anne
Rice fan, but there are extenuating circumstances...<g>)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:43:56 -0400
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From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Reading (was Ideas)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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re: "Joe's Story", Zoomway wrote:
>>  I don't regret writing it even though it made some readers
uncomfortable
(okay, with Leigh I got a 14 page scolding ;) <<

So when Leigh only sent 5 pages worth of complaints over "Going to
the Chapel", does that mean she liked it? <g>

>> Most of the fiction I read, as you can probably tell, is science
fiction and some fantasy. I have never read a romance novel of any type, =
or
a western, or a
James Bond type of intrigue/adventure novel. <snip> ...I begin to wonder
if I'm an
anomaly among others of my gender<g> Anyway, I'd really be interested in
favorite novels, authors, genres, etc. <<

Okay, you asked for it... my favorite genre is science fiction;
favorite authors include Isaac Asimov, Anne McCaffrey and Lois McMaster
Bujold (I *highly* recommend her to anyone who'll stand still).  I'm quit=
e
fond of most of Tom Clancy's novels.  I like selected books by Heinlein
and Niven/Pournelle.  I think H. Beam Piper is chronically
underappreciated.  Terry Pratchett writes hysterically funny fantasy book=
s
(Discworld).  I've also long suspected that I was an atypical female <g> =

and one of the ways I knew I should marry my husband was the large overla=
p
in our libraries.

I like some mysteries, mostly by Dorothy Sayers (Lord Peter Wimsey); I te=
nd
to go for historical settings there, and I like an element of romance
and/or humor in the story, with a minimum of gore

However... I confess, I also read romances, of several types.  I
started reading Regency romances (a popular subgenre set in England,
mostly, in the early 1800s), especially those written by Georgette Heyer =
in
high school (G.H. is the classic author of regencies; her stories have no=

sex but lots of humor and great characterization).  A little later, after=

my heart was first broken (<sob!> <g>) I read romances voraciously just t=
o
have something to fill the time, and since I could easily read three of
them in a day, I wasn't too picky about quality.  I still read them
occasionally, when I can find time; they're fun (as long as I don't stumb=
le
into the ones that make me want to take the "heroine" out behind somethin=
g
and thrash her for idiotic behavior <g>).  For these, I tend to read the
"series" romance novels - they've got modern settings, and they're not to=
o
long. The thicker, historical romances tend to frustrate me too much - in=

order to fill their page count, the author has to keep putting up
artificial barriers between her protagonists - Maysons and Scardinos, and=

Lex and Deter and worse... <shudder>  (But they're not usually as bad as
Debby was in Dawning6 <eg> with WWW Waldecker popping up at the *worst*
time!)

I think that mostly covers it...

PJ

!^NavFont02F089C0023MGHHGeMGgHG81MG83HGDEMGE0HIHMIJHO9EA721

  E-mail from: Pam Jernigan, 22-Sep-1997
  jernigan@compuserve.com / ChiefPam on the IRC
~~~~~
Unreformed, unrepentent, sometimes unproductive but never uninteresting
<g> fanfic writer =

Visit Sarah & Pam's Shrine o'Fanfic at:
 http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/2501
~~~~~
Lois and Clark Season 5 Fanfic:
     http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/mothership/60/season5.htm
~~~~~
"The first thing she said to me was 'Herbie, get me to the Planet.'
 Naturally, I wondered which planet..."
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Sep 1997 23:00:04 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Barbara Garonzik <Bsg2351@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading

In a message dated 97-09-22 15:48:37 EDT, you write:

<< Janet Daily (prior to discovering she is a
 plagerist!). >>

I didn't know this.  Was she actually charged?

barb
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 00:09:37 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading (was Ideas)
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>> Okay, my all-time favorite is The Count of Monte Cristo  by Dumas,
Alexandre, 1802-1870
       The Count of Monte Cristo or the adventures of Edmond Dantes,

which was so much better than Tale of Two Cities...anyone else read both?=

(Both are historical novels set against the backdrop of the French
Revolution - i.e.
"Let them eat cake.") <<

I may have read them at some point - I vaguely remember doing A Tale of
Two Cities in school - but for that time period I much prefer The
Scarlet Pimpernel - a dashing hero who disguises himself as an ordinary
man... a woman who loves the hero, but is married to the man - sound
familiar? <g>

PJ
"They seek him here, they seek him there..."

!^NavFont02F0227000CMGJHH\MH^HIoBC15
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:46:57 -0400
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Angela Garmaise <agarmai@REDEEMER.ON.CA>
Subject:      Re: Fav books
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.16.19970922163109.4b373872@vmspop.isc.rit.edu>
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I have to say that when it comes to classics, Les Miserable (the slightly
shortened version) is my all time fav (Victor Hugo).  When it comes to
slightly more modern stuff.... don't get me started.  I'm a vociferous
reader, and will read absolutely anything I can get my hands on,
especially during school holidays!
Angie G.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 14:09:38 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Peace Everett <PEverett9@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading

Um, did someone mention Anne Rice?

This came in today's PEOPLE email newsletter:

PEOPLE ONLINE DAILY
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 1997
RAISING CAIN
Even though his "Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of
Superman" cape has been retired, Dean Cain is not quite
ready to let his feet touch the ground. Variety reports that
the ex-Man of Steel has signed a deal to star in author Anne
Rice's first original TV project, a pilot for CBS called
"Rag & Bone." IN this supernatural drama, Caine will star as
a former priest, now New Orleans cop, who encounters the
ghost of a cop from the 1950s.

Peace
Come read my fanfic! and link to Season 5 - The Adventures Continue...
A FoLC Named Peace - http://members.aol.com/PEverett9/peace.html
Kal-El:  "My heart is waiting for me back on Earth.  Lois is my heart.
I was an outsider there.. incomplete.. until I met her."
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:06:16 -0400
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Laurie Stroh <LStroh1856@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading

In a message dated 97-09-22 23:02:48 EDT, you write:

<< << Janet Daily (prior to discovering she is a
  plagerist!). >>

 I didn't know this.  Was she actually charged?

 barb
  >>

Well....she was discovered via the internet during some sort of romance
readers/writers chat.  She has admitted that she plagerized part of two of
Nora Roberts books and Nora is not sure what she is going to do about
it......there was a a short article in People Weekly a couple of months ago
that talked about the whole thing.  If you're interested I'm sure you could
get a copy of the article from your library.

Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 15:10:08 -0400
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Laurie Stroh <LStroh1856@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading

In a message dated 97-09-23 00:43:46 EDT, you write:

<< Georgia  (guess I'd better try to track down Rag and Bone - I'm not an
Anne
 Rice fan, but there are extenuating circumstances...<g>)
  >>

I am not real familiar with Anne Rice's stuff but I was under the impression
that Rag and Bone was not a book of hers but rather something she helped
develop specifically for television.  Perhaps someone on the list who knows
more about her work could clue us in on this.

Laurie
LStroh1856@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:35:24 -0500
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From:         Genevieve <NightSky@EROLS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Ideas
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>I personally don't think I have a problem with almost any type of fanfic
>(other than the cheating or death fic type) I like funny stuff, romantic
>stuff, and stuff that has a surprise or a twist to it.

This lead to an interesting discussion of Ruth's "A Winter Tale," (which I
vaguely remember) "Puzzles" (which I don't remember at all), Gary's sequel
(which I also don't remember -- I'll have to take a trip to the archives and
refresh my memory), and "Molly", which I do remember, and I have to agree
with whoever said it was totally implausible.  The general consensus seemed
to be, however, that cheating, deaths and divorces left a sour taste in many
people's mouths.

I'll speak up for the minority here, and say that *I'd* enjoy reading
cheating or death fic types, assuming, of course that they are well done.
I don't read for the WAFFs, particularly -- in fact, (dare I say it?) I
find WAFFs kind of boring, especially WAFFs without WHAMs preceeding them.
What I tend to look for is different takes on the characters, how they
react in certain [WHAMmy] situations.  Divorce, cheating, death -- they
would all put our favorite characters under a lot of stress, and different
aspects of their characters.

What could cause Lois or Clark to think of divorce or cheating?  And
interesting questions, and I do think there are things that could.  (I
remember when I read "Molly" that that was the end of that marriage -- that
Lois would never forgive him that.)  I think there are a lot of aspects in
both their characters which will not make marriage easy for them.  It'll
not be a bed of roses for either of them -- at least not if we take off
our rose-coloured glasses of the perfect couple with the super-natural
"bond."  And it won't be clones, dishonest doctors, New Kryptonians, murder
charges or time windows that cause problems in their marriage, but some of
the character traits of Lois and Clark themselves.

A death story is the end of Lois and Clark, but, while death is always the
end of *someone's* story, everyone elses's stories continue.  How the
survivor copes, remembers, can make for interesting reading.  I read Beauty
and the Beast fanfic, and I much prefer the fanfic set after Catherine's
death, to the "classic" stories.  Perhaps, however, that's just because the
ending to that series was so unsatisfactory.

There's been very little fanfic written about one of the more interesting
parts of the legend to me -- Superman's refusal to kill.  How high a price
will he pay the keep his hands clean, what would push him accross that
line?  How would he react after he killed someone, and how would Lois
react?  Would she blame him, comfort him, try to justify it in his eyes?

One of the things that has surprised me is that in our ever-growing mountain
of fanfic dealing with Alt-Clark, almost all of it, if not all of it, choose
the WAFFy way, pairing him up with Alt-Lois or Clone Lois.  Zoomway's latest
even gave him back his secret identity with a seeing eye dog.  No one has
really examined what Superman would be like in the Alt-Universe.  I have
visions of a lonely Clark, living in a secure penthouse (sort of like
Luthor's), putting communication satellites into orbit for the Rudolph
Murdoch's of the world for a significant sum, and agonizing over whether to
sign a contract with the Defense Department.

Now it could be argued that those types of stories are not "Lois and Clark"
fanfic, but just plain "Clark" fanfic, and perhaps they are.  They don't
lend themselves to WAFFs easily, that's for sure.  But they could explore
some unexplored areas.

Peace said:

>one of the first lines was "It was a year since the
>divorce" or words to that effect.  Well, I closed the file right then and
>went to work *very* depressed -- just that thought really tore me up (who
>me? too involved? nah... ;)

A story that starts out talking about a divorce seems very optimistic to
me, as you have the whole story left for the reconciliation.  (WAFF, WAFF,
WAFF!)  Stories that *end* with the divorce are the depressing ones.
Although occasionally, as with Rhett and Scarlett, one can only say "it's
about time!" when the marriage *finally* breaks up.

 =======================================================================
Genevieve  (NightSky@erols.com)  <http://www.erols.com/nightsky>

"Do you suppose they celebrate death days on the other side?  Will the
day we give up the ghost be a day of celebration in heaven, or are we just
another log on the fires of hell?"--The Nightcrawler (Forever Knight)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:36:18 -0500
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From:         Genevieve <NightSky@EROLS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading (was Re: Ideas)
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Zoomway asked:

> Anyway, I'd really be interested in favorite novels, authors, genres,
etc.

The replies have been fascinating; more proof that we are all "kindred
spirits" in a way.  A lot of you have mentioned books that I, too, would
put on my "favorite books" list.

For a quick read, I'll grab published "fanfic" -- the Star Trek, Star Wars,
Quantum Leap or Forever Knight novels.  Outside of fanfic, I still tend to
read series books -- Science fiction/fantasy (MacCaffery, Marion Zimmer
Bradley), or mysteries.  I like to see the same detective over and over
again, but changing -- finding romance, growing older and wiser.  Dorothy
Sayers has been mentioned, and I've been enjoying Elizabeth George's
mysteries these last few years.  And I'll read anything (no matter how bad)
about King Arthur or Robin Hood.

I like realistic novels that come in series too.  Jane Duncan's "My
Friends" series is one of my favorites, and I'm haunting used bookshops
looking for them.  The libraries are getting rid of them, and they are very
hard to find right now.  Someone mentioned Madeline L'Engle's novels.  I
love those as well.  They too fit in the category of "series" books in many
ways, since a major character in one will show up as a minor character in
another.  There is always a chance to find out something new about a
wonderful character.  Although I've always been disappointed that we found
out what happened to Susy Austin in "A Severed Wasp", but there was not a
clue about Vicky.

Jenny, I grew up on my father's Analog/Astounding collection as well--his
went back to 1946.  It was fun comparing the serialized version in
Astounding of "Dragonflight", "Citizen of the Galazy" or "Dune" for
instance, with what finally was published.  Lots of minor, but telling,
changes.  Sadly, my sister got the magazines when my mother sold the
house. I've read all of Heinlein's novels, and enjoyed them.  I love
re-reading the juvenile novels he wrote in the 1950s.  I agree that
Stranger in a Strange Land was the beginning of his "weird" stage; my
candidate for "best" Heinlein novel is "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress".

I've always tended to go off the deep end over books; this obsession with
Lois and Clark is nothing new--it's just the first time I've had anyone
to share an obsession with.  When I was 13 I read a copy of Frank
Herbert's "Dune" to shreads; I think it was the only book I read for the
entire year. Likewise in later years I wore out Elysyth Thane's
"Williamsburg novels", the Lord of the Rings, Katherine Kurtz Deryni
novels, and Atlas Shrugged.  I'd write my own "mental fanfic" around
these stories, the same way I do LNC.

I don't read many romances anymore, and can't remember the last time I
picked up a "bodice-ripper."  But my all-time favorite book, which has
kept that status for over 20 years now, is Jane Austen's Pride and
Prejudice.  This is a wonderful romance, but also about secrets,
disguises (well, misleading public images, anyway) and self-discovery.
I must re-read the whole thing at least two or three times a year.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Genevieve    (NightSky@erols.com) ; <http://www.erols.com/nightsky>

To find out anything you want to know about Superman (in comics, cartoons,
television, or movies, from Bud Collyer to Dean Cain) -- check out
  THE SUPERMAN HOMEPAGE <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/7771/>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:52:04 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Becky Lewis <BLEWISPAR3@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading
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>From Georgia's post

In a message dated 97-09-23 00:43:46 EDT, you write:
>> Since going online last year and hooking up with all you wonderful
*folcs*
>>  my reading of actual published material has dwindled to about nil.... >>
>
> Whew - that's a relief. I thought I was the only one who had become a
>  non-reader since getting involved with online fandom. <g>

Me, too, it's nice to know I'm not alone <g>

> <snip>
>  Before, though, I read constantly and skipped around: science fiction,
>  fantasy, romance both historical and contemporary, mysteries, and the
>  occasional thriller.
>
That sounds like me as well, as did the person who posted she tends to
follow
the works of an author she likes until she’s read them all. Personally, I
found the timing of this question quite ironic, because I realized over the
weekend that it had been months since I'd read a "real" book, so I put the
library and the secondhand bookstore on my errand list. The library visit
yielded two Star Trek novels and a novel by Mary Stewart of the “Crystal
Cave” fame called “The Prince and the Pilgrim.” The used bookstore netted
three of Lillian Jackson Braun’s “The Cat Who...” mysteries. Definitely a
pattern...and by the way, I would have picked Fahrenheit 451, given the same
choice!

Becky
blewispar3@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 18:23:44 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         "Georgia E. Walden" <GWalden@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading

In a message dated 97-09-23 15:12:22 EDT, you write:

<<  am not real familiar with Anne Rice's stuff but I was under the
impression
 that Rag and Bone was not a book of hers but rather something she helped
 develop specifically for television.  Perhaps someone on the list who knows
 more about her work could clue us in on this. >>

You're absolutely right, Laurie, as I would have known if I'd been reading
every post instead of just skimming. ;)  However, if the show does make it
to
air, I'll bet there'll be a TV tie-in paperback - the Anne Rice name is too
salable for them to miss the opportunity.  And usually those things have
*pictures* (yeah, I'm shallow <g>)

Georgia
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:49:45 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Susan E VanCott <gutterfic@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      A fanfic idea

Well, it's been a couple days since I saw Honeymoon in Metropolis again,
and I had a kind of a thought.  Did anyone else notice the similarities
between HIM and Superman 2?  L&C have to go undercover as a married
couple in a honeymoon suite.  The bellboy makes cracks at them.  Okay,
maybe there aren't THAT many similarites, but the big one is there:  L&C
being an undercover married couple at a honeymoon suite.  I think it
would be awesome to combine the movie and the ep.  There were parts of
the movie that I just didn't like, such as "Don't you know this is
killing me?" prompting CK to erase Lois' memory of his secret.  ARGHH!
And there were some stupid lines such as, "I don't know why I did that."
"Maybe you wanted to."  "I don't think I did."  Sheesh.  But I loved Lois
jumping into a river because she thinks CK=S.  And the brush line.
"Where's my brush?  Where's my brush?  God, not only have I lost my mind,
I've lost my brush!"  And the bellboy saying "Have a happy...whatever."
The movie had the potential to be so much better.  And I think that
Teri's Lois would react better than Margot's Lois.  And I think I would
have to use the whole ice palace Fortress of Solitude.  Sorry, but L&C
wouldn't fit in a treehouse! <eg>  And I think that Dean's Clark could
have beat up that creep in the diner even without powers, although that
would lose the scene in the end that was so funny.  I think it's an even
trade, not to have to see CK get beat up.  And I bet I could have a
little fun with the kissing contest Lois mentions in Superman 2....
Does anybody have any ideas for the story?

*********************************************************
"Lois, get a grip!"  "Ooh, believe me, I'd love to!" ;)
~~>Susan<~~
********************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:05:56 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Susan E VanCott <gutterfic@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Comb post: Re: Reading, Ann Rice, and evil ABC

The most recent book I finished was Oedipus Rex for school.  I of course
couldn't stop thinking of "Oedipus Wrecks"...  Actually, I've decided
that the title of that ep wasn't really appropriate.  See, if you don't
know already, and Oedipus complex is being in love with your mother.
Herkimer Smith wasn't in love with his mother, he just felt ignored.
Well, at least that was my interpretation.  I guess that the title was
somewhat appropriate, but not exactly.

And about that Ann Rice Rag & Bone thing... I can't wait!  Dean as a cop,
I can see.  A priest turned cop, though?  That's kind of strange, but
fine with me!  It sounds like a cool series.

I have been looking around for little insults at ABC and Disney.  In one
day I found two!  A thing about television said something about ABC's "TV
is good" campaign.  It seems that they have an ad that says "You've got
billions of brain cells"  or something like that.  This article in the
paper pointed out the obvious evil in that statement.  It's like saying
"What's a couple brain cells down the tube?"  Or, more appropriately, ABC
is saying "TV is power.  The power to lull, to pacify.  And when all eyes
are glazed and all minds are jelly, the power to take."  Hmm, do you
think that ABC is starting an evil conspiracy to take over people's
minds?  And then, later, I saw an interview with Jaleel White (the guy
who plays Urkel on Family Matters).  They asked him how he felt to move
from ABC, the station that gave him his fame and fortune, to CBS.  He
said he was really happy to make the move.  Hehehehe!
*********************************************************
"Lois, get a grip!"  "Ooh, believe me, I'd love to!"
~~>Susan<~~
********************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:38:44 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Beverly Latham <blatham@HOP-UKY.CAMPUS.MCI.NET>
Subject:      Reading,
              Writing & 'Rithmetic . . . oops wrong group [was Re: Ideas]
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At 01:12 AM 9/22/97 -0400, The Zoomway wrote:
>I got positive and negative feedback on the story, but
>this, from part of Leigh Raglan's 14 page scolding was the much more
typical
>response. "This is wrong! There is no way, shape or form that would cause
>Clark Kent to live a lie and a sexual relationship with Lois Lane as
>Superman!"

Ummm . . . I do seem to remember this one, yet can't quite place it. And at
the moment, I'm too lazy to dig out a post where someone mentions the title.
Although it's entirely possible that I'm thinking of another story. There is
quite a lot of fanfic out there I haven't read. I do seem to remember a
story where Superman ends up in bed with Lois before telling her . . . the
secret, not that they're in bed, hehehe . . . thought I might want to clear
that up. I would hope Lois might figure out the other on her own . . . er,
where was I? but I thought that story was by another author. If I remember
correctly, the one I read bothered me a little but not nearly as much as a
couple of others that had Clark doing things totally out of character with
OTHERS besides Lois . . . which is probably the redeeming feature of the
above situation, at least for me. If we truly want to push the envelop, I
can see Clark being tempted beyond his ability to resist under the right
circumstances as long as we're talking about Lois. <vbg>

>Or,
>Becky had just bought some Superman bubble bath and said she'd like to have
a
>story involving a bubble bath, and so I wrote Dirty Bubbles. Some stopped
>reading that short story after the first paragraph indicated Lois was
married
>to Lex Luthor<g>

This I can very much identify with because I caught some flack, gentle
though it was, over a similar kind of situation in one of my stories . . .
and Lois was married to CLARK the whole time! I just let the reader think
otherwise and almost came to regret it before the dust settled. Whew! Funny
how people do react to things so very differently.

>Most of the
>fiction I read, as you can probably tell, is science fiction and some
>fantasy. I have never read a romance novel of any type, or a western, or a
>James Bond type of intrigue/adventure novel. I think that's what I'd be
>interested in hearing on the fanfic list. What do the readers and writers
>read when they get an honest-to-goodness published novel?

I have an entire paperback collection of Agatha Christie mysteries. I think
I have everything of hers that's been published in America. Along with hers,
I've read quite a few other mystery writers over the years, but I prefer
whodunits to any other kinds of mysteries. I also have around fifty STAR
TREK paperbacks, with most of those being THE NEXT GENERATION, but I stopped
buying them around four years ago . . . hmmm, now why does that seem
significant? <g> I bought a few of the STAR WARS novels but became really
disappointed in them, extremely fast. The first three by Zahn were great,
but after that I did not like the way they were developing the lives of the
principles. To that add assorted sci-fi and fantasy books and I do mean
assorted. My tastes in that genre sort of skip around quite a lot and I
don't generally go with the authors considered The Classics. For that
matter, my tastes in fiction have skipped around my entire life. I even had
a Louis L'Amour phase. Westerns, for those that don't know.

However, the bulk of my personal library are romances and now I'm gonna do a
little ranting, more or less. Notice I said romances, mind you, not
bodice-rippers. Personally, if anyone's bodice is going to be ripped, I
think it should be Clark's. He does it so very well. <vbeg> Seriously,
though, I've run across true bodice-rippers in the past and they almost
turned me off romances completely because they ARE disgusting. A true
bodice-ripper is not about love but about domination. This does not equal
romance in my book. I'm not saying they aren't still being published, but
for the most part, that's not what's out there nowadays in the mainstream
romance genre and hasn't been for, oh, at least the last ten years or so.
What is available is incredible both in sheer volume and variety.

I'm always amazed when someone says they've never read a romance before
because any love story in any format is a romance. Louis L'Amour had a
romance in almost every one of his westerns if I remember correctly. The
difference in terms of genre style is that romance specializes in exploring
the emotions of the pair of, um, combatants as they discover each other.
Instead of focusing in on the action taking place in, say, a mystery or
adventure story, the primary focus in a romance is in on what's going inside
the hero and heroine's heads and hearts. The key word there is primary,
though, because the best romances are filled with action and, contrary to
popular belief, it's not all sex. Oh, there are love scenes, but notice the
change in phrasing. Loves scenes are as much about emotions as they are the
physical action of sex. Big distinction.

And, yes, it is exactly this distinction that makes romances an acquired
taste that has to be developed just like with any other form of literature.
This distinction is also why some of the most memorable genre-true romance
stories do not translate well to the visual medias of movies and
televisions, it's just too difficult to adequately depict getting inside
peoples heads and showing their emotions. It can be done and has been quite
well on occassion, but a lot of what truly makes it a romance is lost in the
process. Think of all the things that we bemoan never got discussed and
dealt with on L&C and then think about how much a lot of them were internal
to the characters in the first place. There are simply limits on how much
can be dealt with emotionally outside of the written word.

One of the things I find truly interesting about romance as a seperate and
distinct genre from other forms of fiction literature is that because it's
about the emotions involved between the pair, the outside plots can take
place in just about any situation, in any locale, and in any time-frame. You
name it, it could be a romance. Hence, there are mystery romances, suspense
romances, action-adventure romances, gothic romances, fantasy romances,
sci-fi romances, time-travel romances. And then there are the historicals .
. . gads, anything from ancient civilizations to early twentieth century on
any continent. My personal favorites there are the English medievals. Love
those knights. Oh, and then there are the Scots. Would I like Clark in a
kilt? Ya bet ya, I would. <vbeg>

Or a loincloth . . . or a toga . . . or, hmmm, time for some more historical
research . . .

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Beverly Latham
blatham@hop-uky.campus.mci.net
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:52:32 -0400
Reply-To:     Kassia@concentric.net
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kassia <Kassia@CONCENTRIC.NET>
Subject:      Re: Reading, Ann Rice, and evil ABC
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Susan E VanCott wrote:
>
    I of course couldn't stop thinking of "Oedipus Wrecks"...  Actually,
I've decided that the title of that ep wasn't really appropriate.
Oedipus complex is being in love with your mother. Herkimer Smith wasn't
in love with his mother,

*I don't think that the title was the BEST that they could have come up
with....so I would have to agree....
>
> And about that Ann Rice Rag & Bone thing... I can't wait!  Dean as a cop,
I can see.  A priest turned cop, though?  That's kind of strange, but fine
with me!  It sounds like a cool series.

It definitely sounds quite promising....though I, too, am a bit
skeptical of imagining Dean as a former priest....I'm sure we'd all love
to share some 'confessions' with our Man of Steel! :)

Tanya <kassia@concentric.net>

"Old news isn't news--it's history"
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Sep 1997 21:54:46 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gary <gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A fanfic idea
In-Reply-To:  <19970923.204945.3358.0.GutterFic@juno.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hmmmm....Let's see honeymoon suite, ice palace, diner fight, and Clark
gets to squeeze Lois' oranges...sounds like a fanfic waiting to be written!

At 08:49 PM 9/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, it's been a couple days since I saw Honeymoon in Metropolis again,
>and I had a kind of a thought.  Did anyone else notice the similarities
>between HIM and Superman 2?  L&C have to go undercover as a married
>couple in a honeymoon suite.  The bellboy makes cracks at them.  Okay,
>maybe there aren't THAT many similarites, but the big one is there:  L&C
>being an undercover married couple at a honeymoon suite.  I think it
>would be awesome to combine the movie and the ep.  There were parts of
>the movie that I just didn't like, such as "Don't you know this is
>killing me?" prompting CK to erase Lois' memory of his secret.  ARGHH!
>And there were some stupid lines such as, "I don't know why I did that."
>"Maybe you wanted to."  "I don't think I did."  Sheesh.  But I loved Lois
>jumping into a river because she thinks CK=S.  And the brush line.
>"Where's my brush?  Where's my brush?  God, not only have I lost my mind,
>I've lost my brush!"  And the bellboy saying "Have a happy...whatever."
>The movie had the potential to be so much better.  And I think that
>Teri's Lois would react better than Margot's Lois.  And I think I would
>have to use the whole ice palace Fortress of Solitude.  Sorry, but L&C
>wouldn't fit in a treehouse! <eg>  And I think that Dean's Clark could
>have beat up that creep in the diner even without powers, although that
>would lose the scene in the end that was so funny.  I think it's an even
>trade, not to have to see CK get beat up.  And I bet I could have a
>little fun with the kissing contest Lois mentions in Superman 2....
>Does anybody have any ideas for the story?
>
>*********************************************************
>"Lois, get a grip!"  "Ooh, believe me, I'd love to!" ;)
>~~>Susan<~~
>********************************************************
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu <http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
|  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson, TWYH  |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 00:02:25 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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Comments:     RFC822 error: <W> Incorrect or incomplete address field found
and
              ignored.
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading (was Re: Ideas)
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While wandering down memory lane, Genevieve <NightSky@EROLS.COM> wrote:

>>  Likewise in later years I wore out Elysyth Thane's "Williamsburg
novels", <<

Have to chime in - I *adore* Elswyth Thane, especially the
Williamsburg novels... okay, so I'm not so fond of Yankee Stranger, but
then I generally dislike Civil War settings - must be a side effect of
hating "Gone With the Wind" <g>  My favorites are "Ever After" and "Homin=
g"
- and I have to nominate "The Light Heart" as the most mis-titled book I'=
ve
ever come across, I found it *really* depressing - Genevieve, no doubt yo=
u
loved it <g>

I haven't read them in a while, since I've been unlucky in finding
copies outside of libraries <sigh>

Oh, and reading "Tryst" by her was the most magical, wonderful,
enchanted afternoon I've ever enjoyed - something in it really touched me=
=2E =

(If anyone out there has this book and would be willing to sell or lend i=
t
- please e-mail me :-)

And while we're discussing novels that really captivate you and paint
a reality more convincing than your own, I have to include "Trade Wind" b=
y
M.M. Kaye.

>> more proof that we are all "kindred spirits" in a way.  <<

It's funny... among my local FOLC group, a significant minority also
love reading Georgette Heyer <g>

PJ

!^NavFont02F04090026MGnHG3BMG43HG82MG84HJ82MJ84HJB0MJB2HKQ43F0

  E-mail from: Pam Jernigan, 23-Sep-1997
  jernigan@compuserve.com / ChiefPam on the IRC
~~~~~
Unreformed, unrepentent, sometimes unproductive but never uninteresting
<g> fanfic writer =

Visit Sarah & Pam's Shrine o'Fanfic at:
 http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/2501
~~~~~
Lois and Clark Season 5 Fanfic:
     http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/mothership/60/season5.htm
~~~~~
"The first thing she said to me was 'Herbie, get me to the Planet.'
 Naturally, I wondered which planet..."
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Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 00:02:27 -0400
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From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      A fanfic idea
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While flipping channels, Susan E VanCott <gutterfic@JUNO.COM> wrote

>>  Did anyone else notice the similarities between HIM and Superman 2? <=
<

Yeah, I did, sort of... okay, mostly I noticed how much the blunt plot
devices annoyed me.  But actually, the storyline would work much better
with Teri & Dean; I could never believe that the movie's Lois would be
happy with "just Clark", which is what she got.

Now there's a fanfic idea - if L&C determined that having sex would kill
her, but there was a way to rid CK of his powers... would they do it?

PJ
rambling happily :-)

!^NavFont02F01D30017MGHHG3DMG3FHG78MG7AHHD4C82D

  E-mail from: Pam Jernigan, 23-Sep-1997
  jernigan@compuserve.com / ChiefPam on the IRC
~~~~~
Unreformed, unrepentent, sometimes unproductive but never uninteresting
<g> fanfic writer =

Visit Sarah & Pam's Shrine o'Fanfic at:
 http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/2501
~~~~~
Lois and Clark Season 5 Fanfic:
     http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/mothership/60/season5.htm
~~~~~
"The first thing she said to me was 'Herbie, get me to the Planet.'
 Naturally, I wondered which planet..."
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:21:18 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Barbara Garonzik <Bsg2351@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading

In a message dated 97-09-23 14:14:59 EDT, you write:

<< This came in today's PEOPLE email newsletter: >>

How do you get this newsletter?

Barb
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Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 03:40:48 -0400
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From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Ideas

In a message dated 97-09-23 17:39:27 EDT, NightSky@EROLS.COM writes:

<< Divorce, cheating, death -- they
 would all put our favorite characters under a lot of stress, and different
 aspects of their characters. >>

Rarer still among the "cheating" stories is the character not being able to
get over it, get past it. Inevitably forgiveness follows the "gut-wrenching"
agony. If Clark cheated on Lois, I would expect Lois to try, but fail at
ever
truly getting over the betrayal. Since cheating in general goes completely
against everything we've seen established for Clark's character, it still
becomes something pretty hard for me to swallow anyway, but supposing he
cheated, I'd believe a story where Lois decides it's not fair to either of
them to try and make it work anymore. I'm not a fan of "Friends" per se, but
I did see the episode where one character wants to get back with his
girlfriend after cheating on her, and she just can't forgive him. She can't
get past it. It's the ultimate betrayal and in a manner is a humilation to
the person who is cheated on (was she prettier, was she sexier, was she
better in bed). If Clark or Lois were to degrade the other in this manner,
then maybe not being able to make it work would be the most satisfying story
for me, but ya know what?  I wouldn't read it anyway<g>

For me L&C are special, and the problems they face aren't the problems
everyone else faces. They have to work ten times as hard just to make some
semblance of a relationship work, and for that reason alone they're more
admirable to me and more "gut wrenching" moments can be achieved with them
simply trying to make something work that nobody in the history of the world
has had to try and make work. I'm not saying that devices or cliches like
cheating or death of a character being used to elicit hand-wringing angst
can't be good. I remember one of the much older fanfic stories about the
death of a very aged Superman that was very touching and it worked well. As
for a story with great impact without having to go the route of cheating or
death in order to create a situation that tests the characters, there was
Sheila Harper's "A Shot in the Dark" which I thought was excellent and
challenged Lois and Clark even in a sexual sense (Lois had been paralysed by
a gunshot wound) So I think for me something that challenges them while
still
keeping them in character works a lot better. Again, just for me personally.

>>>There's been very little fanfic written about one of the more interesting
parts of the legend to me -- Superman's refusal to kill.  How high a price
will he pay the keep his hands clean, what would push him accross that
line?  How would he react after he killed someone, and how would Lois
react?  Would she blame him, comfort him, try to justify it in his eyes?<<<<

As long as it's not handled as abysmally as the season premier of
Millennium.
The revamp called for the loss of the wife and daughter so they worked out a
separation plot line that will audience-test the reaction to a 'single'
Frank
Black and his new cohorts at the Millennium group. Anyway, for those of you
who were fortunate enough to miss the premier, Frank's wife was kidnapped by
a "talking head" whacko and then Frank finally finds her, the guy springs
out
of the darkness with a knife and attacks Frank. Frank gets the knife and
kills the kidnapper. The wife is appalled...I mean guy, she is like totally
bummed, he truly bent her aura with that one<g> She told him that she
couldn't live with him and needed some space <insert other cliches> about
how
she had to think of their daughter and if a man who would do what Frank did
was a good dad. I told my husband after the wife's reaction "If a whacko
ever
kidnaps me and keeps me chained in basement, feel free to blow his !@#$ing
head off!" ;)

>>>Zoomway's latest
even gave him back his secret identity with a seeing eye dog.  No one has
really examined what Superman would be like in the Alt-Universe<<<

That *was* my take on how his life would be in the Alternate universe<g> I
had him facing a new protest group every day and having someone who has to
schedule his appearances at charities, awards, etc. Having such a high
profile person who attracts protesters had the neighbors on Clinton Street
disappearing little by little and Clark is hurt when he discovers that fact.
I had him losing his job at the Planet simply because his continued presence
there was disruptive and the competing papers cried foul saying he was
unfair
competition.

I think everyone has their own "motive" for certain story lines. I think
right now you'll see stories where alt Clark finds alt Lois, and later there
will be stories of a different nature about the alternate Clark and his
world. I had a lot of issues I wanted settled for alt Clark. I wanted him to
have a private life restored. I wanted Lois to do that for him because if
not
for her he'd have never lost that to begin with. I wanted a touch of a
tribute to the silver age Superman, and so the "regular guy" became the
disguise in the alternate world. I wanted the sexual tension established in
Tempus Anyone and Lois and Clarks resolved by *that* couple.  To accomplish
that I had to make the alternate Lois hidden within (merged with) the Lois
we've all seen for four years and thus retaining her memories.  In reality
there could be a lot of "takes" on the Alternate Clark. He could become a
tyrant, a broken man, a recluse,  a pawn for the military and dozens of
other
scenarios (many covered in the comics in Elseworld stories and annuals)

>>>I have
visions of a lonely Clark, living in a secure penthouse (sort of like
Luthor's<<<

I toyed with Clark living such an existence, but since I strongly felt
Superman (once outed by Tempus) would be the target of various protest
groups, and perhaps even radical groups (his apartment was blown up in my
story) then I felt a highrise penthouse arrangement would be impossible.
Who'd want to rent the rest of that building?<g> Also, I didn't want to go
the Batman-type "Dark Knight" loner for Clark. That too was done in the
comics in "Speeding Bullets".  I think that being more of a Lois fan, I tend
to go more with stories that test her, rather than Clark. Those who are
bigger Clark fans will do stories that test him. It's not *always* the case
with me, since Counter Clark-Wise was a test of Clark throughout the story,
but often I like highlighting Lois since the series is the only medium that
has ever made Lois as important to the legend as Superman himself.

>>>putting communication satellites into orbit for the Rudolph
Murdoch's of the world for a significant sum, and agonizing over whether to
sign a contract with the Defense Department<<<<

Stories where someone who is "not like us" being outed and the aftermath of
that has been a staple on TV. In "Bewitched" Samantha gives Darren a dream
of
what their life would be like if they told eveyone she was a witch. Well,
almost immediately there were bleachers set up outside the Stephens' home.
Bus tours included their home on their route. The military basically asked
that Wizard of Oz classic question "Are you a good witch, or a bad witch?"
Okay, they asked if she was an "American" witch. Samantha and Tabitha were
moved to a military installation for protection and study. I can see all of
this more or less happening to alt Clark, but I'd feel like I was ripping
off
American sitcom heaven to do it ;) There was also "Mork & Mindy" saying that
Mork was an alien, holding a TV press conference, and doing a stint on Tom
Snyder. An interesting take happened on "My Favorite Martian" Martin's
nephew
Andromeda visited him and he was very gungho Martian and didn't believe in
pretending to be an "Earthling"  He basically blabs that he's a Martian and
proves it, and the planet goes into abject panic at the idea that there are
aliens here on Earth. They literally are under seige in the episode. They
are
seen as a threat to everything from mom's apple pie to national security.

These were all one-shot episodes, and so had nothing approaching a lasting
impact on the balance of the series, but neither did *they* address tough
questions. I've always felt if intelligent life were found somewhere besides
Earth, there would be far reaching implications and many of them would be
philosophical and religious. I battle between extremes when contemplating
our
government having covered up UFO confirmations. First, I can imagine the
military trying to "spare" us the truth, for whatever reason, but I can't
imagine a race of beings so intelligent that they can build spacecraft that
can traverse the known galaxy being *caught* by the military. I proposed a
story that would have Superman discovered as a complete and utter hoax
perpetrated by a scientific consortium who wanted to run the ultimate test
in
"behaviorism" What if it were discovered that Superman was a normal infant
who had been treated with some formula that would turn him into a "super"
man
as he grew? How would Superman be viewed after the truth came out? How would
Clark view himself?

>>>>Stories that *end* with the divorce are the depressing ones.
Although occasionally, as with Rhett and Scarlett, one can only say "it's
about time!" when the marriage *finally* breaks up.<<<

With Rhett and Scarlet (as with a lot of romance of that genre and era) it
is
almost a done deal from opening to close that their "love" (if it can be
called that) is doomed. With Lois and Clark, their destiny lies in another
direction, at least for me, or they become just one more star-crossed set of
lovers like Vincent and Catherine, Heathcliff and Cathy (wow, it might work
if it were titled Cathy and Clark ;) where the angst flows like cheap gin at
the Ace o' Clubs<g> It's not that I have anything against melodrama or
gothic
"doomed" romance, but sometimes they are so unrelenting that you'd
personally
volunteer to kill them both just to have it over with.   I don't like soap
operas, and they tend to have cheating and death angst all the
time....oh...and amnesia<g>

Zoomway@aol.com
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Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 04:33:32 -0400
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From:         Peace Everett <PEverett9@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading (was Re: Ideas)

Hmmm.... what do I read when I'm not reading fanfic?

Well, up until about a year ago (which is when I got into FoLCdom) I was
working on a complete collection of the Star Trek novels -- at last count I
had something like 200 from the various book series -- Classic, Next Gen,
DS9, Voyager, Starfleet Academy, DS9 Boys.  I've got a copy of the very
first
Star Trek novel ever published --  a children's novel entitled Mission to
Horatius.  I also have a numbered copy (First Edition) of Hamlet Prince of
Denmark, the Restored Klingon Version <g>, as well as a large number of
Trek-related books.

I've read almost all of Clive Cussler's books -- his Raise the Titanic
hooked
me and I thoroughly enjoyed all the others up to his most recent, which he
must have been asleep when he wrote -- it lacks his usual style.  I went
through a phase of being really into Alistair McLean -- mainly because my
brother was really into them, but I haven't read anything of his in ages.

I also went through a phase of reading stacks of Harlequins, but I got over
that real fast!

I've read some of Marion Zimmer Bradley, but not recently.  I have a whole
stack of Barbara Hambly that I got at a garage sale and haven't gotten to
yet.

What else have I read recently?  Dawning.  Oh, wait, that's fanfic ;)

Hunt for Red October.  Lost Moon (on which Apollo 13) was based.  Quantum
Leap novels, which don't come out nearly often enough to suit me.

People have mentioned some of my favorites from years gone by:  Pride and
Prejudice, The Scarlet Pimpernel, A Wrinkle in Time.  As a teenager I got
hooked on C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia and read the entire series
through
many times -- I still love those stories.  A few years back I found them in
Portuguese and got to brush up my skills in that language reading them
again.

Peace
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Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 05:47:12 -0600
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From:         Debby Stark <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Clark Fic
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At 04:35 PM 9/23/97 -0500, Genevieve wrote:

[snip interesting stuff about ideas...]

>There's been very little fanfic written about one of the more interesting
>parts of the legend to me -- Superman's refusal to kill.  How high a price
>will he pay the keep his hands clean, what would push him accross that
>line?  How would he react after he killed someone, and how would Lois
>react?  Would she blame him, comfort him, try to justify it in his eyes?

If the world saw that he had done it, would 99% of the population be on his
side but what would Lois and his folks think? Even if they thought it
justified, how do they react to how he surely thinks about it?

>One of the things that has surprised me is that in our ever-growing
mountain
>of fanfic dealing with Alt-Clark, almost all of it, if not all of it,
choose
>the WAFFy way, pairing him up with Alt-Lois or Clone Lois.  Zoomway's
latest
>even gave him back his secret identity with a seeing eye dog.  No one has
>really examined what Superman would be like in the Alt-Universe.  I have
>visions of a lonely Clark, living in a secure penthouse (sort of like
>Luthor's), putting communication satellites into orbit for the Rudolph
>Murdoch's of the world for a significant sum, and agonizing over whether to
>sign a contract with the Defense Department.

I did this a bit in my Argh rewrite. I could see him bereft of real friends
(everyone but the villains fawns on him) and he tires of that rapidly.
Without anyone to pour his heart out to, which he'd had, in a way, with Lana
and maybe the Langs, I could see him getting cynical and standoffish. I'd
still rescue people, but I could see him delivering stern lectures, too :)

>Now it could be argued that those types of stories are not "Lois and Clark"
>fanfic, but just plain "Clark" fanfic, and perhaps they are.  They don't
>lend themselves to WAFFs easily, that's for sure.  But they could explore
>some unexplored areas.

Clark Fic is an interesting term. I'd like to explore more of Clark's life
and journeys/adventures before he decided to give Metropolis a try. Whenever
I think up an idea for this, though, I tend to think: where the heck am I
going to put Lois? Should I try to give her equal time? Does it matter? What
could Lois have done at this age that wsa as interesting? Is this post to
ask if it's all right to do pure Clark Fic? Would a general "okay" also
apply to pure Lois Fic? Would I obey a general negative reply if I had a
good idea? Is it too early in the morning (5:25am) to be asking such
questions? ;)

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
trying to remember what reading hard copy is like
so she can reply to the "what do you read" thread...
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 05:47:14 -0600
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From:         Debby Stark <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading (was Ideas)
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I recall that in either late junior high or early High School, we were given
the choice of several novels to read as a group.  I picked Moby Dick (no
doubt and abriged version) but can't remember much about it, so it was
probably in junior high (before it became "midschool") (before Dean was
born)...

For non internet-derived reading now...?

Magazines and local newspapers I can skim through usually. I'm just
finishing a 2-year-old copy of the British travel magazine "Wander Lust",
which I picked up to get ideas for a traveling CK (with or w/o Lois).  Great
magazine! I read in the bathroom a lot ;)

I have stacks of books I haven't read and will eventually (when there's no
more electricity and internet access, I guess).  For example, I have books
on martial arts and Taoism; the Alien Nation novels; books by Spike Milligan
and P. G. Woodhouse; and a collection of "Wrapped in Plastic," a magazine
dedicated to Twin Peaks; some occult horror (Koontz, Skipp and Spectre,
Reeves-Stevens). And more.

Recently Read Fiction:

"The Cat Who..." books by Lilian Jackson Braun. Light mystery with realistic
cats as heros. The author really researches her topics, the things she has
her hero become interested in, and I like her style. Also at the library
sales room (a great place to get back issues of unusual magazines) I picked
monthly SF and Mystery compilations in magazines.

and Nonfiction:

"The Secret School," by Whitley Strieber. I'll read anything by him, fiction
or nonfiction. He has a site, too, www.strieber.com :)

I suppose we'll all be checking to see if Anne Rice has written anything for
Rag & Bone yet...

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
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Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:53:29 -0700
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From:         Vicki Krell <Vicki.Krell@ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: A fanfic idea
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And what was the deal with Margot Kidder's mouth? Was it just me, or did
it look like she was wearing dentures? Her teeth looked too big for her
mouth. And I agree, Dean's Clark would have beat the crap out of a
protagonist, at least he did on the show when he was without his powers.

Vicki

        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Gary [SMTP:gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU]
        Sent:   Tuesday, September 23, 1997 6:55 PM
        To:     LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
        Subject:        Re: A fanfic idea

        Hmmmm....Let's see honeymoon suite, ice palace, diner fight, and
Clark
        gets to squeeze Lois' oranges...sounds like a fanfic waiting to
be written!

        At 08:49 PM 9/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
        >Well, it's been a couple days since I saw Honeymoon in
Metropolis again,
        >and I had a kind of a thought.  Did anyone else notice the
similarities
        >between HIM and Superman 2?  L&C have to go undercover as a
married
        >couple in a honeymoon suite.  The bellboy makes cracks at them.
Okay,
        >maybe there aren't THAT many similarites, but the big one is
there:  L&C
        >being an undercover married couple at a honeymoon suite.  I
think it
        >would be awesome to combine the movie and the ep.  There were
parts of
        >the movie that I just didn't like, such as "Don't you know this
is
        >killing me?" prompting CK to erase Lois' memory of his secret.
ARGHH!
        >And there were some stupid lines such as, "I don't know why I
did that."
        >"Maybe you wanted to."  "I don't think I did."  Sheesh.  But I
loved Lois
        >jumping into a river because she thinks CK=S.  And the brush
line.
        >"Where's my brush?  Where's my brush?  God, not only have I
lost my mind,
        >I've lost my brush!"  And the bellboy saying "Have a
happy...whatever."
        >The movie had the potential to be so much better.  And I think
that
        >Teri's Lois would react better than Margot's Lois.  And I think
I would
        >have to use the whole ice palace Fortress of Solitude.  Sorry,
but L&C
        >wouldn't fit in a treehouse! <eg>  And I think that Dean's
Clark could
        >have beat up that creep in the diner even without powers,
although that
        >would lose the scene in the end that was so funny.  I think
it's an even
        >trade, not to have to see CK get beat up.  And I bet I could
have a
        >little fun with the kissing contest Lois mentions in Superman
2....
        >Does anybody have any ideas for the story?
        >
        >*********************************************************
        >"Lois, get a grip!"  "Ooh, believe me, I'd love to!" ;)
        >~~>Susan<~~
        >********************************************************
        >

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
        | Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu
<http://www.rit.edu/~gar8434> |
        |  "You decide what you feel heaven is worth" - Deborah Gibson,
TWYH  |

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:14:22 -0500
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From:         Alyssa Mondelli <agmondelli@STTHOMAS.EDU>
Organization: Brought to you by the legal firm of Deceive, Inveigle, &
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Subject:      Re: Reading (was Re: Ideas)
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> Hmmm.... what do I read when I'm not reading fanfic?

Lots of nonfiction, especially nonfiction in narrative form. Jonathan
Harr's "A Civil Action" and John Berendt's "Midnight in the Garden of
Good and Evil" are two recent examples that I adored. And travel
narratives are one of my special favorites. Michael Crichton's "Travels"
is an old friend; I'm currently reading Jeff Greenwald's "The Size of
the World".

Science fact and fiction... right now the shelf of things to be read in
my (ha!) copious free time includes some theoretical physics, some
speculative fiction, and several sf stories that I've been told I *have*
to read. (Just finished "Ender's Game" yesterday - do I qualify as a
true sf fan now? :->)

I have a soft spot for mysteries dating back to junior high, when my
friend Val introduced me to Perry Mason and we set out to find and read
all 85 novels. (Never did, but we came darn close...) I've lost interest
in Sue Grafton's alphabet series, but I still love Karen Kijewski's Kat
Colorado mysteries (though the recent ones have been lacking) and
Lillian Jackson Braun's The Cat Who... series.

Authors I will follow anywhere: Barbara Kingsolver, Anna Quindlen, Dave
Barry, Toni Morrison, Douglas Adams, David Simon.

And my single favorite book? Norton Juster's "The Phantom Tollbooth". If
you've never read it, your life is incomplete. Go find it in the
children's section of your favorite bookstore or library *now*.

==Alyssa in St. Paul== (agmondelli@stthomas.edu)(AlyssaM on the IRC)
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/mothership/60/index.htm
shameless plug: See my Library page for even more book recommendations
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 19:04:37 +0000
Reply-To:     dom-mel@dial.pipex.com
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Comments:     Authenticated sender is <ae412@pop.dial.pipex.com>
From:         Dom Melaragni <dom-mel@DIAL.PIPEX.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading,              Writing & 'Rithmetic . . . oops
wrong
In-Reply-To:  <199709240138.VAA07874@aus-e.mp.campus.mci.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

>Oh, and then there are the Scots. Would I like Clark in a
> kilt? Ya bet ya, I would. <vbeg>

The campaign continues <g>  Latest theory is......

Planet Hollywood are scheduled to open in Edinburgh soon.  I'm
considering writing to them to tell them that all the stars should be
in kilts and btw, why don't they invite Dean <g>.....a Flying
Scotsman!

Dom - go look at Jackie's website for lots of pictures of Dean in a
kilt - http://ds.dial.pipex.com/jacmac

=================================================================
Dom Melaragni (FlakeyDom)   The LnC drinking game and Fest pics
                        http://ds.dial.pipex.com/dom-mel/index.htm

?8-)] Clark Kent smiley with the superhero squarejaw chin
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:18:26 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Sara Kraft <tmax@AZSTARNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Clark Fic
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Debby Stark wrote:

>Clark Fic is an interesting term. I'd like to explore more of Clark's life
>and journeys/adventures before he decided to give Metropolis a try.
Whenever
>I think up an idea for this, though, I tend to think: where the heck am I
>going to put Lois? Should I try to give her equal time? Does it matter?
What
>could Lois have done at this age that wsa as interesting? Is this post to
>ask if it's all right to do pure Clark Fic? Would a general "okay" also
>apply to pure Lois Fic? Would I obey a general negative reply if I had a
>good idea? Is it too early in the morning (5:25am) to be asking such
>questions? ;)

I've read several Clark fics and thoroughly enjoyed them.  In fact, I think
they were some what of a series by this wonderful lady named Margaret
Brignell. <g>  I found that I was able to understand the present Clark much
better with reading his background.  Margaret writes Clark wonderfully, his
emotions and mannerisms and such.  I've also just finished reading "When a
Great Man Loves a Super Woman" by Ben Pistorius, which was a Lois fic (of
course as the title indicates, with a slightly different twist).  So in
answer to Debby's question, yes it's okay with me to do pure Clark fic and
pure Lois fic.

Sara Kraft (tmax@azstarnet.com), who can't wait to find some free time in
which to read TUFS #1 and the new Dawning.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 11:18:16 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Vicki Krell <Vicki.Krell@ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reading,              Writing & 'Rithmetic . . . oops
wrong
Comments: To: dom-mel@dial.pipex.com
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dom, I keep trying to send you an e-mail but it never goes through. If
you can, please e-mail me at Vicki.Krell@ASU.Edu. It's about flakes and
the fanfic you wrote (at least, I THINK you wrote it!!). Thanks!

        -----Original Message-----
        From:   Dom Melaragni [SMTP:dom-mel@DIAL.PIPEX.COM]
        Sent:   Wednesday, September 24, 1997 12:05 PM
        To:     LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
        Subject:        Re: Reading,              Writing & 'Rithmetic .
. . oops wrong

        >Oh, and then there are the Scots. Would I like Clark in a
        > kilt? Ya bet ya, I would. <vbeg>

        The campaign continues <g>  Latest theory is......

        Planet Hollywood are scheduled to open in Edinburgh soon.  I'm
        considering writing to them to tell them that all the stars
should be
        in kilts and btw, why don't they invite Dean <g>.....a Flying
        Scotsman!

        Dom - go look at Jackie's website for lots of pictures of Dean
in a
        kilt - http://ds.dial.pipex.com/jacmac

=================================================================
        Dom Melaragni (FlakeyDom)   The LnC drinking game and Fest pics

http://ds.dial.pipex.com/dom-mel/index.htm

        ?8-)] Clark Kent smiley with the superhero squarejaw chin
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:18:00 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby Stark <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Reading (was Ideas)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:48 PM 9/22/97 CST, you wrote:
>Not much time for reading books anymore, but I did manage to fit one
>in about a month ago. It was a Tony Hillerman mystery. Can't
>remember the name of the specific book but his are always good.
>Kay II

Tony, an exOklahoman, lives here in Albuquerque and I've heard him speak (it
was a brown-lunch-bag talk at the University: "What would you say if this
were your last speech?). Funny guy--Excellent writer.  His descriptions of
the desert are marvelous.  His mysteries are well thought out and riviting,
and his characters are always interesting.  The Navajos and the Hopi think
he does a good job writing them into his novels.

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
who can recommend Tony Hillerman, too :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:18:45 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby Stark <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Looking for Lois Lane
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:15 AM 9/22/97 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 97-09-21 21:20:26 EDT, debby@SWCP.COM writes:

[snip my scenario about Jack]

>To quote alternate Clark "This is exactly what I was afraid of"<g> That
>sounds awfully close to Batman and his boy companion Robin ;) I was glad
Jack
>vanished.

Only if Clark knew about it, but I think Jack would wisely have kept it to
himself. I liked Jack. I like characters with promise (I'll make them
promising) who enhance the main characters :) That's why I was disappointed
as the number of continuing characters dwindled.

>>>>Some argue that he hadn't had a steady relationship before, and this may
>be the case<<<

>"Flying is a piece of cake. I've been doing it since high school. What
>happens if I screw up? I lose a little altitude, but being in a
relationship,
>that's completely new..."  So, yes, that was the case. He never had a
>relationship by his own admission.

Ah, but he took Rachel to the prom. In Honeymoon in Metropolis, both of them
admitted to not having lived with anyone. I suspect by "relationship" he
meant the kind he wanted to have with Lois. I suspect he had quite a few
girlfriends.

After all, he didn't learn to kiss like he was able to (and he sure wasn't
shy about endulging in it) from his mom...

>>>>However, I don't think this translates into the relationship he wants
>being hard to maintain. If he had not yet had such a relationship of his
own, let's
>look at the most influenial relationship he experienced through
observation,
>that of Martha and Jonathan<<<<
>
>How much worth was his parents as examples when it came to a courtship?
Clark
>didn't know what his parents dating history was like. If anything, I think
>Clark's idealized vision of his parents relationship sometimes caused some
>unrealistic expectations for him.. He wanted instant 'happily ever after',
>but because he only saw the "after" with his parents, he had absolutely no
>clue what they went through to achieve that.

We know that he didn't know that his dad had to ask his mom 4 times. But as
far
as I know, that's all he knew about their history (which is a little hard
for me
to believe). However, having high expectations doesn't mean unrealistic
expectations. Instead, to me it means he had hope. Unfortunately(?) for him,
he tried his hopes on Lois, who's parents went through hard times.  *That*
part was hard on him. Was it hard because his parents' romance was atypical
or because Lois's parents' romance was? Difficult to say...

>>>>Clark could have solve that by simply telling Lois the truth<<<
>
>Telling Lois the truth only solved part of the problem (his dashing off
>appearing to be a fear of commitment, etc) but it still didn't give him
>relationship skills, and no matter how good an example Jon and Martha were,
>Jon was never two people who had to balance a job, being a superhero and a
>marriage. Martha didn't have to adjust to something like that either. Lois
>and Clark were on their on with that scenario.

I still don't see the difficulty. Once she knows why he rushes off, then
what's difficult? She would still get into trouble all the time even if he
weren't super because it's unlikely she'd give up her job just to get
married. It's the same as before, when both of them were still willing to
make the commitment. No, I still
don't see why he had this trouble. I can understand her wariness, just not
his.
He must have thought he could make it work or he wouldn't have proposed to
her.

What made it so difficult after that? Was it Lois having to think about it
and
not saying yes right away? Maybe. But where did CK get that sulky attitude?
(poor writing?) (yes) Was it Lois abandoning her independent ways and
assuming
he'd always be there to rescue her and thus throwing herself into dangerous
situations? (Contact) Maybe. (that never made sense to me anyhow; a plot
device
--a "road block.") So to stop her from doing that, he dumped her. Huh?

I guess all this is because "he didn't have any experience"... but his way
of expressing his lack of experience sure never made any sense to me...

>>>blundered into his relationship
>with Lois Lane and came out looking like a heavily stressed chunk of
>granite<<<

>I enjoyed their "blunders". It made their bliss all the more well earned ;)

What bliss? Those little bits wedge in between the villains explaining their
next move? I think we can agree we would rather have seen more bliss than
bandits.

>>>hen, seeing that his mind was made up and that he was going to make his
>announcement the next day, Lois rushed out to find a better solution.
Which,
>of course, she did. Hooray, Lois<<<
>
>I think ultimately the decision has to be Clark's. I know it's supposed to
be
>50/50 in a marriage,. but there are some points where one partner has the
>ultimate decision to make and stand by. If a wife doesn't want any more
>children, but the husband does, I say ultimately *she* makes the decision
>because she is the one who has to endure the pregnancy.

I agree.

>Now, if both men and
>women could get pregnant, that would be different. The wife could say,
"Okay,
>you want another baby? It's your turn to get pregnant."

Amen (A women, too)

>Lois had a great deal to do with the creation and the maintainance of
>"Superman", but when push comes to shove, Clark is the one all alone out
>there having to make the decisions by himself, often in a split second.

Agreed, except this particular decision wasn't one made in a split second.

>Jon and Martha made great points about Lois and Clark losing their privacy
and
>Lois being known from there on out as "Superman's wife",

and they politely didn't mention that their own lives would be
in jeopardy from then on...

>but Lois accepts
>what might befall her and Clark if the truth comes out, what she *can't*
>accept is what happens to Superman if the truth comes out. She's trying to
>let Clark know that the truth could be as bad or worse for "Superman" as
the
>scandal. Superman's "fate" can be discussed and argued by all parties who
>might be effected by "the truth", but ultimately the decision can't be made
>by committee, it is up to one person--Clark Kent.

Who, from how I saw it, failed to take all of this into account. The effect
on his own parents alone I feel should have prompted him to talk it all out
with them before coming to any major decision.

However, it made for "melodrama," and talking heads aren't interesting, so
we got him going off to prepare and Lois rushing off to save the day
(hooray!!)

>>>It took her most of the episode to say this, too. Yawn.<<<
>
>Having been married 16 years, I can tell you that it takes a lot longer
than
>"most of the episode" sometimes to tell your husband what's upsetting you.
>This phrase, "Well, if you don't know what's wrong, I'm certainly not going
>to tell you" didn't become a cliche from lack of use<g> ...
>...One reason Lois drew the whole
>thing out is because she thought Clark knew about his molecular structure
>"stablizing and slowing" the aging process and she was angry he never told
>her.

Thus making my argument for her to simply ask him about it. Did she think he
was purposefully keeping it from her? If not, all the more reason to simply
ask him. But that wasn't dramatic enough.

>>>>That's not what was said, that much I recall. His body had already
>compensated. It had made up the difference, he had revitalized, he was the
same as
>before.<<<

>Well, here's the dialog, make of it what you will, but to me it sounds like
>Clark did "lose something".
>
>"Dr. Klein said my body has already compensated for the age drain."
>"Compensated? Then you have lost something."
>"My friend is healthy. I'm sitting here with my wife. I haven't lost
anything."
>"You gave up years."
>"I gave them up for a friend."
>"How many?"
>"I don't know. The truth is, no one knows how long they've got. Anyway,
it's
>not the years that count, it's the moments. Right now, as they happen."

     I heard: "Dr. Klein said my body has already compensated for the age
drain."
     She went on to say "You gave up years.... how many"
     He said "I don't know."

>You'll recall right after Superman came out of the machine (after resetting
>Carter Shank to infancy and Jimmy back to a 22 year old) he said "I feel
>okay"  Lois asks Doodsen "Is he?" and she says "It's too soon to tell"

     I go with Klein, who knows Superman pretty well, than Doodsen, who
didn't know him at all.

> Remember that Jimmy looked fine right after he came out of the machine and
>the rapid aging took a while to start. Superman looked fine right when he
>came out, but because of his long lifespan, then even the 100+ years it
cost
>him to restore Shank (over restore him ;) and Jimmy was something his body
>could "compensate" (counterbalance).

It doesn't matter, Jimmy and Shank are both human. Supes isn't.

>That is, suppose you have a 50 year old man (want one? ;)

     depends ;) that is, if he's not wearing them ;)

>and you age him
>five years. It's not likely that it'll make that big a difference in his
>appearance. However, if you take an infant and age *him* five years, the
>difference is startling. What I'm getting at is say that Superman's
lifespan
>was 200 years, but then you take about 130 from that (to restore Shank and
>Jimmy) and his lifespan now becomes 70 years. In other words, Superman
still
>had 70 years left to him, and so the "drain" wouldn't show on him. Whereas,
>you take Jimmy, whose lifespan is about 70 to begin with and take 50 years
of
>that away from him, then he has no "years" left to compensate the loss.
He's
>going to be an old man. I don't know if any of that made any sense, but
Lois
>and Clark's dialog seems to indicate Clark did in fact lose years.

No, that doesn't make any sense to me (though I can see it might make good
fanfic).  What was *said* was:

     "Dr. Klein said my body has already compensated for the age drain."

and Dr. Klein was not only Superman's doctor but was the one Supes went to
for
the sperm count :) I trust in Klein.

>>>>That's my very point. I certainly expect them to *try*, on the ceiling,
on
>the kitchen floor, or wherever they wanted, and have lots of fun at it! But
>to go into the marriage assuming they could have kids<<<

>Before they got married, Lois was in the alternate world and Wells helped
her
>recall their previous adventure, and in that adventure Wells tells Lois
that
>Superman's descendants create Utopia. Wells also assures her that she "will
>be" good at handling babies.

Too bad he didn't mention Soulmates or the adoption agency, or Tempus and
the time machine trap, the baby from the future, etc. Wells' record wasn't
that good...

>Then if we go back to The Foundling, perhaps
>Clark read too much into Jor-El saying that Earth was chosen because of its
>compatability with Krypton and its people.

I assume (for fanfic anyhow) that compatibility means that the atmosphere
wouldn't kill the baby and probably the human inhabitants might adopt him :)
I like the mystery.

>Either way, even human couples
>assume they can have children until they start trying and nothing happens.

"even human," I agree! However, only Lois was human.

>>>>I suspect that he did know. I wouldn't expect Clark
>to rat on Lois because I would expect Perry to already know about it.<<<
>
>Okay, let's assume that for whatever reason not indicated in the episode,
>Perry knew Lois stole the story and so *he* sent her on that wild goose
chase
>through the sewage reclamation plant.

I wouldn't assume this. I'd have Perry take Lois aside and ask her if she's
okay, she doesn't usually upset her coworkers like this. After some heming
and hawing she'd breakdown (as she was wont to do) and admit to him (her
father figure) that she had no idea what she was doing. He'd counsel her and
let her off with a warning :)

>>>>Clark, sitting quietly at his desk, speaking from the heart, looking
>right at Lois (note that the newsroom is nearly empty). "Lois, I don't
>appreciate you stealing other people's stories."<<<
>
>Even if a more subdued scene had been feasible for the Lois of Neverending
>Battle fame, all we'd get really is an apology from her,

That's bad? That would be a major step forward! :)

>and it still ices out Jimmy's part.

Maybe as part of the apology L&C could help Jimmy get the story :)

>I think the show handled it well and with good humor, and
>Lois knew she had it coming and learned a lesson about underestimating
Clark
>Kent when he's the victim of story stealing ;) In fairness though, if you
>want to rewrite NB, that's okay, as long as I get to rewrite IGACOY ;)

Gladly! When I have time ;) Until then, I'd rather just drop IGACOY
from the canon ;)

>>>>Well, we know where to go to find out what CK's idle fantasies are...
>;)<<<
>
>Are these sexual or non-sexual? ;)

Hey, you're the one arguing his having no relationship experience... what
kind of fantasies does a guy like that have, hmm?

>Zoomway@aol.com (what the heck, it's 4:00a.m., the gutter's open ;)

It's 7:38pm here, though I started pretty e